Dedicated Suppressed AR vs. Standard AR Suppressed Results

[Ironman8]

As an alternative to a dedicated upper, what about a dedicated suppressed BCG to go along with the suppressor?

The special BCG would offset the increase in gas drive caused by the suppressor.

The combination of the two would be able to drop into most standard uppers and retain the same cyclic rate.

I'm assuming by "special BCG" you mean the LMT Enhanced...

And I assume by "combination of the two" you mean LMT Enhanced + A5? (In reference to my post?)

Is this speculation or theory on your part, or have you tried this?

[Clint]

I'm assuming by "special BCG" you mean the LMT Enhanced...

And I assume by "combination of the two" you mean LMT Enhanced + A5? (In reference to my post?)

Its along the same lines as your post.

Special is not exactly the LMT. I mean a BCG specifically calibrated to offset the suppressor.

The "combination" is suppressor + special BCG. They get installed together. When you take the suppressor off, you also remove the SBCG and replace it with the old BCG.

The existing buffers, etc could be left as-is in the various uppers.

[Ironman8]

Its along the same lines as your post.

Special is not exactly the LMT. I mean a BCG specifically calibrated to offset the suppressor.

Can't say I've ever heard of such a thing??

[Eurodriver]

I'm off to the range. I'll get pics and video. I've only got 300 rounds, but Im taking it out again Christmas Eve to run another 500 rounds.

Great post Euro!

I've been interested in doing a similar project for quite some time now. I really like the idea...but I'm still a little concerned I would run into issues unless I was running full-powered Ammo and the suppressor all the time. My plan was to only cut to 11.5", use the A5, and the enhanced carrier though. It was my line of thinking that this would allow me more leeway for running unsuppressed, and .223 powered loads.

I'd be very curious to see how an A5 buffer system and LMT enhanced carrier would factor into your dedicated upper's performance.

That is the point of a dedicated suppressed upper though. You will not be shooting it unsuppressed. If I had any intentions of shooting this unsuppressed at all I wouldnt have gone through the trouble. I'm not calling you out, this isn't directed toward you at all. But I have seen a few people on here try to make "dedicated suppressed" uppers and then complain when it won't cycle unsuppressed. My rifle intermittently cycles full power M193 unsuppressed. Firing .223 turns it into a straight pull bolt action. But I don't care because it cycles everything from weak Korean .223 to M193 suppressed smoothly and reliably.

If people want a more mild setup for part time unsuppressed use, then yeah, maybe cutting the barrel to 11.5" or even 12.5" with the 0.058/0.062 gas port size would help with that but its a toss up as I'm not aware of anyone who's ever done it.

I have no plans on putting an A5 on this rifle, only on the rifles with the original gas port/barrel lengths. This does not need an A5. I may run an LMT enhanced carrier and play around with springs to try and get solid reliability unsuppressed but that won't be for a while if I even try it at all.

As an alternative to a dedicated upper, what about a dedicated suppressed BCG to go along with the suppressor?

The special BCG would offset the increase in gas drive caused by the suppressor.

The combination of the special BGC and suppressor would be able to drop into most standard uppers and retain the same cyclic rate.

Are you talking about manufacturing your own bolt carrier? Because even an LMT enhanced carrier with an A5 assembly will not make an overgassed carbine with a suppressor shoot as smoothly as shrinking the gas port size will.

I'm not sure anyone makes anything like that.

[Ironman8]

Let us know how the H3 works at smooting out the recoil on the 12.5" when you suppress it. I'm really surprised at how bad you described the recoil...

[fixit69]

Great info. Keep us informed on your results.

[Stangman]

This thread is very helpful. I just got my lower & it's ready to get SBR'd. The forms will go out in a week or so & I've been looking harder into what all I need to get so the 10.5 will work well suppressed.

[SteveL]

This thread is very helpful. I just got my lower & it's ready to get SBR'd. The forms will go out in a week or so & I've been looking harder into what all I need to get so the 10.5 will work well suppressed.

I'm kind of in the same boat. I want to do a suppressed 10.5" AR, but I want the option of removing the suppressor and having the rifle still function properly. The Noveske switchblock seems promising for this, but it's pricey. A local shop had the complete DD MK18 a few days ago for $1229. The complete Noveske switchblock 10.5" AR was about $1000 more. It's kind of hard to ignore that. I was thinking that maybe if I got the DD and added an A5 kit and an LMT enhanced carrier that it might give me what I'm looking for. I know it wouldn't be the same as a barrel with a suppressed-only custom gas port, but I don't think that would give me what I'm looking for anyway.

On the other hand, it's hard to ignore the fact that adding an A5, 51T Blackout (or Breakout), LMT enhanced bolt carrier, and sights that I'm well over halfway through the cost difference between the two rifles. I'm guessing the Noveske wouldn't benefit much (or as much) from the LMT enhanced carrier if it has the switchblock, but I don't know that for sure. Same with the A5. I'd be curious to hear some opinions from those more experienced about these options/parts combinations.

[Eurodriver]

Let us know how the H3 works at smooting out the recoil on the 12.5" when you suppress it. I'm really surprised at how bad you described the recoil...

I will not be shooting the 12.5" suppressed very often, so I will be keeping the H Buffer in it. However, I will pick up an H3 soon just for tinkering and report back.

I cannot overstate the extreme difference in felt recoil and gas blowback between the 12.5" suppressed and the small gas port 10.3" suppressed. (See below)

This thread is very helpful. I just got my lower & it's ready to get SBR'd. The forms will go out in a week or so & I've been looking harder into what all I need to get so the 10.5 will work well suppressed.

I feel like this cannot be said enough: My rifle will not work unsuppressed. If you want to run a suppressed and unsuppressed SBR I highly recommend the Noveske Switchblock.



We took some vids today.

This is my buddy shooting, I am filming. Kind of had a weird thing going on (my arm was over his shoulder) but its a nice camera angle.

http://youtu.be/Ndy-441xCRU

I hope this doesnt devolve into a "You suck at pulling the trigger." debate. This goes back to what I was saying above regarding the gas blowback.I was not looking forward to getting gas in my eye. I sort of just slapped the trigger without really aiming as the purpose of the video was to compare the sound, not get rounds on target. The eye relief on the ACOG is pretty short and requires me to get in close. Its very uncomfortable with the extra gas from the can, every shot makes my eyes water. With that said, check out the difference in sound with the can mounted. The video almost sounds like its editted. The M4-2000 rocks.

http://youtu.be/XI2cOtoW7hY

The suppressor is AWESOME. I don't know what you guys are talking about, even on the 10.3" this rifle is hearing safe. It only gets quieter as the barrel length increases. I think this may have to do with being on an outdoor range without trees. When I shot this the other day it was definitely louder but I was in a heavily wooded forest and the supersonic crack might have contributed to that. With hearing protection standing off to the side it sounds like a very quiet "thoosh". I love the tone, I love the mounting system (It did not stick to the mount at all) and I love the suppressor.

But I only love it on the 10.3" with the small gas port. It is really that bad with the OEM 12.5" gas port however that may just be because I have the small gas port to compare it to. I'm sure if I shot my 12.5" suppressed by itself without having ever shot the 10.3" it would not be that bad. But just to make my point even clearer, when firing the 12.5" suppressed I could feel the gas rushing through my hair. It was like someone was blowing compressed air at my hair line with every trigger pull. I would not like to shoot this left handed.

A few final notes:

Contrary to the videos, I did shoot these out to 200 yards. The 12.5" did exceptionally well and grouped around 1.5 MOA with 10 rounds of M193 at 200. The 10.3" has a T1 but I still got a 5" 10 shot group at 200 yards. I am satisfied.

I wouldnt mind shooting the 12.5" suppressed, but its not something I would do often. It is way worse than the small gas port upper, but it is not at all unshootable. As I said, it may just be that I am spoiled having a dedicated suppressed upper to compare it to. The short eye relief of the ACOG is a definite issue with the gas blowback and I could see myself developing a flinch or closing my eyes while I pull the trigger due to that.

And if anyone is curious, my buddy couldn't hit an 8" circle at 200 yards with his .338LM. He was pissed my little SBRs were outshooting him.

[Stangman]

I feel like this cannot be said enough: My rifle will not work unsuppressed. If you want to run a suppressed and unsuppressed SBR I highly recommend the Noveske Switchblock.

I'm with ya. I wasn't necessarily talking just about yours though. I've taken notes on it not functioning unsuppressed. I appreciate your info, and all of the other good info as well.