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I think the necessity of laying out what the AR will be used for and shooters experience is over rated. Why? Because no matter what category AR or shooter experience, it's usually suggested that a basic 16" rifle with a quality barrel is a good choice. Shooters rarely go wrong choosing a basic carbine then configuring the sights to suit the job at hand.
Part and parcel of the Great Trigger Debate is the misunderstanding of what constitutes a good trigger. A good trigger is often defined as one with a light, crisp pull. But that's not always a good trigger for the job. A good trigger is reliable, durable, consistent and controllable. A good stock AR trigger is all of those. That isn't to say all stock AR triggers are good. Some are not.
The Geisselle is a great trigger. But it's not always a good trigger. For a self defense trigger, the "E" series isn't always a good choice. It is reliable, durable and consistent but under conditions of fast and/or stressful shooting, it's not always controllable. Under these conditions, it's too light to give the shooter good tactile feedback before it breaks. It is simply not heavy enough for the average shooter.
It's a misconception that people think a "good" trigger will somehow make them better shots. Get off that already. There are no knowledgeable shooters that think there is piece of gear that will imbue a magical +5 To Hit bonus on their AR. But there are triggers that will allow shooters to apply their skills more effectively and are less of a hindrance to their progress. Whether that's a good stock AR trigger or the appropriate Geisselle remains up the individual shooter.
If you have a gritty stock AR trigger, clean it up and apply heavy grease to all the sear surfaces. You might be surprised at the results. If you do decide to get the Geisselle, choose the model that's appropriate for the job. I feel the heavier SSA is a better choice than the lighter, crisper "E" series for a general use rifle
Last edited by MistWolf; 12-21-11 at 15:53.
INSIDE PLAN OF BOX
- ROAD-RUNNER LIFTS GLASS OF WATER- PULLING UP MATCH
- MATCH SCRATCHES ON MATCH-BOX
- MATCH LIGHTS FUSE TO TNT
- BOOM!
- HA-HA!!
-WILE E. COYOTE, AUTHOR OF "EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW IN LIFE, I LEARNED FROM GOLDBERG & MURPHY"
I am American
Yes, yes, and yes.
A poor shooter will shoot a gun with a stock or Geissele trigger poorly.
A good shooter will shoot a stock or Geissele trigger proficiently.
A Geissele trigger will make it easier for a good shooter to shoot to the best of his ability.
A Geissele trigger may make a poor shooter suck a tiny bit less.
"A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish." - Ty Webb
FWIW - For those who think I am some uber trigger hater or have an issue with Geissele, this just showed up today.
Maybe this will motivate me to shoot some in depth trigger comparison video's.
I tried one of those out in a jig this weekend. Real nice trigger but not one I would recommend to the OP (not that you were) It's pretty lite and w/o a definite 2nd, quite a surprise when it breaks.
Definitely something for an experienced shooter. Damn, all those years you put in to mastering the fundamentals of trigger control will be thrown out the window with that thing![]()
"A flute without holes, is not a flute. A donut without a hole, is a Danish." - Ty Webb
To those who have a S3G or SD3G trigger and feel it's too lite, we do have a 4.5 lb and 6lb trigger spring available for $5 plus $2.50 for S&H. Just send a check with a note telling us which trigger spring you would like. HTH
John Butterworth
Geissele Automatics
1920 West Marshall St.
Norristown, PA 19403
A bit of thread drift, but recently purchased the Geesile (sp) for my M16 commando that was bone stock. FA trig pull did go down about 2 lbs with a very long pull now. Thats fine for FA. I"m happy with that. But the ever so important SA pull went UP 3 oz's. It does have a little less creep, but not much less. They are the only folks i could find that do FA work so i didn't send it back even though it was $400 or so. It appears to be well engineered, but if i ever find anyone who can do both, the GS will go bye bye. I did call them and ask if they could get me at least a pound or so off the SA. They would/could not. Not relevant to the SA trigs discussed, but hopefully of interest to someone. For what is a playtoy for me ideally would have a 6 lb FA with a healthy measure of creep and a 3 1/2-4 SA will little or no creep. Do i need it? No. Will it allow me to skip cans out to a farthur distance. Thats a guarantee. No slam on GS intended. It may not be possible. And i do understand full well the liability issues involved in their line of work. And i love my hat, right?
On the trig thing - i'm wondering if you rifle guys are the ones that spoiled as the bulk weight makes the need for a good trig less important than a handgun. There isn't a handgun shooter in the world that won't put more points on the board with a 3 1/2 lb trig in relation to say a 5. Not a lot, but we are talking absolutes here i assume. I have also done some training and even newbies shoot better when i let them do ONE MAGAZINE on a worked trigger.
And i do understand the responsiblity to help someone be safe. WE all know there are just SO many folks out there that should NEVER be allowed on the range with even a 4 lb trig. JMO
I always hear that a nice trigger wont make a bad shooter an expert or whatever.....Who the hell in here is suggesting that it would???I've never heard anyone say that.
Do nice (er) triggers somehow magically make it impossible to practice proper fundamentals??? Switching between triggers isnt NEARLY as hard as some are making it seem. I constantly go from Glock to HK to Sig to Revolvers to Sig rifles to GI triggers to Geissele to Rem 700 etc. and never have a damn problem. I guess maybe brand new shooters might have issues. I will say that the first trigger I "mastered" was the stock Glock so maybe that was a good thing.
I dont even think the cost of these triggers holds any water as a major negative. There are plenty of parts that cost X% of the rifle that in no way make you X% better. I dont get that. Its preference .
I shoot my 16" carbine @600 yards often with a GI trigger on 12"x16" steel and its not very hard to hit. So, a GI trigger can definitely get the job done but I prefer something nicer. My preference has nothing to do with lacking proper fundamentals or blah blah....
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