Another 12 o'clock light mount...

[SW-Shooter]

I have a better idea...

You can't just leave us hanging like that, it ain't right. Now I won't be able to sleep until I know.

[Buck]

You can't just leave us hanging like that, it ain't right. Now I won't be able to sleep until I know.

If you happen to have a low profile gas block under a free float rail and are to partial to the Troy folding front sight.

What I think would be of use is a rock solid mount that would take up zero rail space and let you mount a x300 or TLR1 in the 12 o'clock position above the barrel, and yet when the sight is folded down, the top of the light should not extend past the top of the folded sight.

S/F

B

[Buck]

You can't just leave us hanging like that, it ain't right. Now I won't be able to sleep until I know.

As promised...

http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/wlights3.html#mt

Attachment 12690
Attachment 12691

S/F

B

[Shao]

Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place, but doesn't the cut off of light produced by the barrel/rail/mount using a 12 o'clock mount drive you guys absolutely nuts? I tried mounting 12 o'clock but the total loss of ground lighting made me quickly change my mind. I don't want to have to point my rifle at the ground to see what's there - it should be illuminated by default. Unless you're fighting a possessed Linda Blair, I would think that there would be more threats on the ground than on the ceiling... thoughts???

[Bimmer]

Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place, but doesn't the cut off of light produced by the barrel/rail/mount using a 12 o'clock mount drive you guys absolutely nuts? I tried mounting 12 o'clock but the total loss of ground lighting made me quickly change my mind. I don't want to have to point my rifle at the ground to see what's there - it should be illuminated by default. Unless you're fighting a possessed Linda Blair, I would think that there would be more threats on the ground than on the ceiling... thoughts???

Somebody who knows more about this than I do is sure to respond, but in the meantime...

If your gun is pointed in a safe direction, at the ground in front of you, then the light will be pointed at the ground in front of you and the shadow of the barrel behind you. Do the same with a 6 o'clock mount, and the shadow of the barrel will be directly in front of you.

In any case, I wouldn't use the light on my gun to "navigate," i.e., to see where I'm going. Pointing your gun at everything that you want illuminated sounds like really poor muzzle discipline.

Use the light on the gun to identify potential targets. Use a handheld flashlight to navigate.

[Shao]

Somebody who knows more about this than I do is sure to respond, but in the meantime...

If your gun is pointed in a safe direction, at the ground in front of you, then the light will be pointed at the ground in front of you and the shadow of the barrel behind you. Do the same with a 6 o'clock mount, and the shadow of the barrel will be directly in front of you.

In any case, I wouldn't use the light on my gun to "navigate," i.e., to see where I'm going. Pointing your gun at everything that you want illuminated sounds like really poor muzzle discipline.

Use the light on the gun to identify potential targets. Use a handheld flashlight to navigate.

I hear what you're saying, I should have been clearer -but I was talking about a SHTF situation where you're confronted by hostiles in a dark environment, with no friendlies around. I don't want to say the Z word, but anything like that - I would rather have my weapon in the ready position to fire. I know that it's poor muzzle control, but I have great trigger finger control and as long as my finger is off the trigger, in those particular situations, I don't see a real issue with using your rifle to illuminate things while navigating. Hostile territories require hostile tactics...

EDIT: That being said, I've been training with a 6 o'clock mount for years, feel most comfortable with it, and will likely continue using it for the forseeable future. Until someone makes a muzzle device with integrated LED light.

[Bimmer]

I hear what you're saying, I should have been clearer -but I was talking about a SHTF situation where you're confronted by hostiles in a dark environment, with no friendlies around. I don't want to say the Z word, but anything like that - I would rather have my weapon in the ready position to fire. I know that it's poor muzzle control...

Hostile territories require hostile tactics...

It's up to you: you can set up your gun for the real world, or for your zombie fantasy...

[Failure2Stop]

Sorry if I'm posting this in the wrong place, but doesn't the cut off of light produced by the barrel/rail/mount using a 12 o'clock mount drive you guys absolutely nuts? I tried mounting 12 o'clock but the total loss of ground lighting made me quickly change my mind. I don't want to have to point my rifle at the ground to see what's there - it should be illuminated by default. Unless you're fighting a possessed Linda Blair, I would think that there would be more threats on the ground than on the ceiling... thoughts???

By default the gun should be pointed at the lowest portion of the closest possible threat, which provides observation around and above the weapon. If carrying the gun at high port, the barrel will block some light, which is easily solved by light bouncing off the overhead and by simply offsetting or twisting the gun slightly to provide illumination where you need it.

The 6:00 mount blocks light exactly where I want it; above my muzzle, and it interferes with horizontal support/cover.

Trying to search/scan/patrol with the gun at the ready/high ready is extremely tiring, and forces you to muzzle pretty much everything you illuminate at close range.

If you like what you do and don't want to change, it's no skin off my nose. I'm not the gear/guns/tactics police or getting your money to help you become more effective, do whatever you prefer. However, a 12:00 mount is highly usable and effective, adopted and endorsed by numerous high-level performers and instructors. Virtually no-one has endorsed a 6:00 mount since the SF M500 series fell out of favor. And before anyone accuses me of hugging my favorite whatever, I generally use a 1:30 mounted light due to my setup, technique, and preferences.

[Shao]

It's up to you: you can set up your gun for the real world, or for your zombie fantasy...

No zombie fantasy, just an analogy for "when you're surrounded by enemies and there are no friendlies around". Don't get all defensive, I'm not downing the merits of a 12 o'clock mount, just wondering what other people thought of what to me, is a very annoying shadow. Granted, you get an annoying shadow at 6 o'clock as well...

By default the gun should be pointed at the lowest portion of the closest possible threat, which provides observation around and above the weapon. If carrying the gun at high port, the barrel will block some light, which is easily solved by light bouncing off the overhead and by simply offsetting or twisting the gun slightly to provide illumination where you need it.

The 6:00 mount blocks light exactly where I want it; above my muzzle, and it interferes with horizontal support/cover.

Trying to search/scan/patrol with the gun at the ready/high ready is extremely tiring, and forces you to muzzle pretty much everything you illuminate at close range.

If you like what you do and don't want to change, it's no skin off my nose. I'm not the gear/guns/tactics police or getting your money to help you become more effective, do whatever you prefer. However, a 12:00 mount is highly usable and effective, adopted and endorsed by numerous high-level performers and instructors. Virtually no-one has endorsed a 6:00 mount since the SF M500 series fell out of favor. And before anyone accuses me of hugging my favorite whatever, I generally use a 1:30 mounted light due to my setup, technique, and preferences.

Thank you for taking the time to write out a well thought out and informative response instead of jumping down my throat. You bring up valid points and seeing how the popularity of the 12 o'clock has surged recently, there must be SOMETHING to it. I'll give it another go, but I don't know if I'll ever get used to it... too many years training with my light @ 6 o'clock..

[cwegga]

No zombie fantasy, just an analogy for "when you're surrounded by enemies and there are no friendlies around". Don't get all defensive, I'm not downing the merits of a 12 o'clock mount, just wondering what other people thought of what to me, is a very annoying shadow. Granted, you get an annoying shadow at 6 o'clock as well...



Thank you for taking the time to write out a well thought out and informative response instead of jumping down my throat. You bring up valid points and seeing how the popularity of the 12 o'clock has surged recently, there must be SOMETHING to it. I'll give it another go, but I don't know if I'll ever get used to it... too many years training with my light @ 6 o'clock..

Another factor contributing to the popularity of the 12 o'clock mount could be the current popularity of carbines with long free float rails on them. With a 16" barrel and a 15" free float tube, there isn't much barrel in front of the light to cast a shadow.