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Thread: Switch to A5 System?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    When replacing an H3 carbine buffer system, I couldn't feel a difference. On lighter carbine buffers, the cyclic rate change is huge.
    This mirrors my experience exactly. No, I don't think the Vltor A5 system is snake oil. Thanks to my A5 system, I was able to move a LMT receiver extension* onto a 2nd-line weapon where it was a big upgrade.



    * Which, by the way, is a hell of a lot slicker internally than Vltor's A5. I'm not knocking Vltor, just observing that their hard anodizing is a very tough, matte, low reflective sort of texture. LMT's tubes are mirror shiny and dry-coated with moly. Does it make a difference? Nah, probably not as long as the rest of your gun is within tolerances.
    Oh no, not another lube thread! Read this first: Lubrication 101.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by kartoffel View Post
    * Which, by the way, is a hell of a lot slicker internally than Vltor's A5. I'm not knocking Vltor, just observing that their hard anodizing is a very tough, matte, low reflective sort of texture. LMT's tubes are mirror shiny and dry-coated with moly. Does it make a difference? Nah, probably not as long as the rest of your gun is within tolerances.
    It does make a difference that you can feel though. I can't say I've had a gun be problematic with a rough RE, but WOW I could feel the diff on one gun that I swapped REs.

    The roughness wasn't the reason, but when I worked the bolt with the charging handle is was a HUGE difference.
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    It does make a difference that you can feel though. I can't say I've had a gun be problematic with a rough RE, but WOW I could feel the diff on one gun that I swapped REs.

    The roughness wasn't the reason, but when I worked the bolt with the charging handle is was a HUGE difference.



  4. #94
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    The true genius in the A5 system is in the concept, not necessarily the execution. I have duplicated the performance of A5 parts using readily available pieces, with the exception of a home-made spacer.

    You see, the A5 buffer tube is nothing more than a slightly modified AR-10 carbine tube. The internal and external dimensions are comparable. In fact, you have choices using other than Vltor tubes. An Armalite tube can be used with mil-spec stocks and a RR LAR-8 tube will work with commercial stocks. I have used both.

    My current iteration consists of an Armailte AR-10 buffer tube, an H3 carbine buffer, a rifle spring, and a spacer made from UHMW plastic. Since the AR-10 tubes have the same approximate internal dimension as the A5, the spacer(make sure the spacer fits inside the spring so it doesn't compress the spring) only has to be made long enough to make up the difference in the internal measurement of an AR-15 carbine tube and either 7.62 carbine tube. Voila, an A5 comparable system using some of the parts you may already have.

    Now, some are going to scream to the heavens about the use of a spacer in the buffer tube. Well, I screwed mine to the bottom of the tube via the vent hole and then drilled new vent holes in the bottom of the tube. All I ended up doing was shortening the depth of the tube, which Vltor did with a longer buffer. Oh, the spacer could be made from almost any kind of round stock, Delrin, UHMW, aluminum, or even steel.

    The one advantage the A5 system has over what I did, is the availability of buffers heavier than the H3, which for me is a non-problem, since I don't require anything heavier.

    I know some of you are going to decry this idea, but it's working on two different carbines of mine, and in the end, that's all I care about. That, and the money I saved.

    ETA: You see, the entire reasoning behind the A5 system was to be able to use the rifle spring in a carbine stock setup, nothing more.
    Last edited by M90A1; 01-04-12 at 15:03.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by skullworks View Post


    What is that??
    "You people have too much time on your hands." - scottryan

  6. #96
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    It's called a ball hone. They are made in a wide range of diameters and grits. The only drawback to using one in this application is that the balls will soon clog with aluminum and quit working. We used to use them for brake cylinders, wheel cylinders, cast iron valve guides and even piston cylinders. They are mainly used for the final finish on any cylindrical part.

    Look here: http://www.brushresearch.com/flex-ho...FRRZhwodzEaKTw
    Last edited by M90A1; 01-04-12 at 14:59. Reason: add link

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    What is that??
    Ball hone.

    M90A1 beat me to it.
    Last edited by BC98; 01-04-12 at 14:59.

  8. #98
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    Click on the pic; it's a flex hone for polishing shotgun chambers.

  9. #99
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    Umm, please don't anybody run a shotgun hone inside their receiver extension. The hard anodization is there for a reason. If you ream it down to the bare aluminum you're liable to run into problems down the road.
    Oh no, not another lube thread! Read this first: Lubrication 101.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by orionz06 View Post
    I am not on an infinite budget and would rather shoot than buy gadgets so I do not know, but people I trust have been able to blindly distinguish the differences between guns with A5's and ones without.
    Different weight buffers could account for that and lets not forget the heavy stocks that come with the A5
    Quote Originally Posted by sinlessorrow View Post
    i shot a quick email to VLTOR and they said the stock system went through testing with the USMC, USSOCOM both of which found that it increased reliability over the carbine stock, the USMC found it was more reliable than the rifle stock.
    they also pointed out that it gives a consistent carrier velocity, as well as increased controllability and reduced recoil.
    Meaningless if they used different buffers.
    Quote Originally Posted by skullworks View Post
    Well, the A5 receiver extension does allow for greater range of adjustability from a collapsible stock system, and the A5 buffer can have greater weight than a carbine buffer (which may be of interest when shooting standard loads out of a suppressed SBR perhaps?).

    Also, with an EMOD or STR-stock the LOP is even greater than on an A2-stock - which could be desirable for bigger shooters.


    I wouldn't say it is 100% snake oil.
    Good points. I think the ease in which you can get a heavier buffer is not to be taken lightly. The small spring rate differences that rsilvers measured between a carbine and rifle length springs don’t change when they are put in a A5 stock. The force just increases whatever .5” of tension is worth. Basically you can duplicate the spring tension on the A5 tube with a carbine tube with the right spring. 6oz buffers might not be so easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by markm View Post
    The Marines shot a mother load of ammo with the A5 and it malfed less than the Rifle buffer within a statistical margin of error. So although the h2 carbean may be no worse, you certainly don't appear to be losing anything with the A5.
    Within a statistical margin of error eh? Interesting.

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