Another AK vs AR Thread?

[alaskacop]

Have you gever shot past 500 yards with an AK? If not try it. Then try it with an AR. 12 inch plate isnt hard to hit at 500 yards using ball ammo. I have done it with a red dot at 565 yards and no magnification with out much difficulty. I will say that I never tried it with an AK. I would like to see a comparison of an "accurate" AK and AR at 500 yrds.

Agreed. Remember that both these guns are more than capable of hitting targets and 500+ yards but the fequency and group size are going to be vastly different between the two. The action and (generally) better QC of the AR makes it far better and consistantly tighter groups, particulary past 100 yards. As stated, since these are both chambed in intermediate cartridges, engaging targets past a few 100 yards is not ideal.

[Heavy Metal]

Optics mounts have improved greatly but are still not ideal. The mag issue you mention is not realy relevant. Sure you can load a AK with a full mag and its best to down load AR mags by 2. However I can reload the AR in 1.88 seconds and my best time with an AK is 3.59 seconds.
Pat

Like I was telling somebody on Slingshot vs Slide Release, the timer don't lie.

[MAJK]

Agreed. Remember that both these guns are more than capable of hitting targets and 500+ yards but the fequency and group size are going to be vastly different between the two. The action and (generally) better QC of the AR makes it far better and consistantly tighter groups, particulary past 100 yards. As stated, since these are both chambed in intermediate cartridges, engaging targets past a few 100 yards is not ideal.

I have seen the results of 762 AK rounds hitting soldiers at long range and they are very ineffective. I have a picture of one of our soldiers hit in the jaw with a 762x39. All it did was break jaw, cut his tongue and embed in his cheek. I pulled it out and we gave it to him to take home. On the other hand I've seen them go through the abdomen without any problem.

Key point is range and shot placement which I believe the AR/M4 is better at both considering the 77 gr bullets. The most accurate AK47/74 is not as accurate as the most accurate AR. And the most accurate ammo for the AK isnt as accurate as the most accurate AR ammo.

Shot placement is the most important factor when you do not exceed the max effective range of the round. Anyone who tell you different doesn't' have experience with bullet wounds. Another example is the soldier who came to our FST with an UXO/RPG in his shoulder. You dont get a much bigger cal than that and he did fine.

[Limey-]

BUGOUT BOY:
But think back to when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan. The Afgans started out with old 303 bolt-action British Enfields, but quickly were able to upgrade to Soviet AK's, RPG's, AK ammo, etc., that they somehow obtained from the enemy.

They did not primarily get them from the Russians. The Combloc fire power utilised by the mujahideen mostly originated from Countries like Romania and Yugoslavia paid for by the US/CIA and the UK/SIS and distributed by the Pakistani's/ISI.

AK or M16. Few trigger pullers exceed the ability of either.

[armakraut]

No Romanian or Yugoslavian AK's over there in the 80's. Rebels would have had Chinese (supplied through Pakistan) or Russian AK's (through the Afghan government). You see boat loads of type 1, 2 and 3 AK's in use by the Afghans and some AKM's. The soviets gave away virtually all of their pre-AKM and AKM guns to any quasi-friendly government, or retarded African warlord they could find and often times they didn't even make them fill out a membership card, or even write "I hate yankees" on a napkin. It has bit the Russians and everyone else in the ass ever since.

[Limey-]

Thanks....I know between Saudi, USA, Britain and China they dumped 12 plus billion dollars worth of weapons into that rockbox in just a few years. The CIA/ISI pipeline was so plentiful in the 80's I had heard that the Chinese were unable to meet demand and unwilling to take credit. The 200 + SCUDS came back to haunt us...over and over.