Hearing protection,, Which one to buy?

[gaijin]

Sordins with gel cups and plugs for me when running Carbine drills.
Most are running 10.3/11.5’s with considerable muzzle blast.

[Esq.]

Anyone running a set of ottos? I've had two instructors in the last 6 months highly recommend them.

[Agile53]

Anyone running a set of ottos? I've had two instructors in the last 6 months highly recommend them.

Shameless plug as they didn’t give me a good seal on opening the box so mine are FS in the *Holsters Gear & Knives* section in the EE here.

[Ned Christiansen]

I just posted this elsewhere but I think it's actually more relevant here.
0000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Taking the time to post this because I consider it a public safety announcement.

I've been testing everything I can get my hands on in a quest for electronic plugs that I can use under electronic muffs. So far, almost all of them work pretty well in that respect. So then it comes down to a few other things-- battery type / charging arrangement, controls / ergonomics. Those that I have, have decent power arrangements, either small batteries or recharging stations / cord. Controls vary from pretty dang good to truly awful.

Oh but then there's one more little thing, right? Hearing protection.

All of them, every last one, fail miserably. Honestly I think a shooter will suffer more hearing damage by even trying them than if they had stuck to whatever they were using before. I won't identify brands at this point but everything I've tried uses the black foamy ear seals. These are of no use in blocking sound.... well I can't say of no use I guess because if you stuffed a gun wrapper in your ear that's something. But it looks as if most makers of this sort of product are getting all their black foamy ear seals from the same foamy mine.

I took one set, the set that I thought had the best controls and powering arrangement, and reworked it adding the Decibulls heat-and-cutom-fit product combo'd with an ear seal from the 3M double enders-- the one there's been a big class-action suit over. This brought the hearing protection part well into the range of acceptable but it is prototype only and not really solid.

What prompted me to do all this searching was, well, one, I am present for the firing of at least 100,000 rounds of 5.56 every year. Sometimes I have to be pretty close to the shooter. The worse my hearing gets.... the more I can't stand the noise (weird, eh?). Sometimes, I kid you not, the sound hurts my teeth, let alone my ears. This is also why I am the Muzzle Brake Nazi-- you absolutely may not have a brake in these classes.

Two: the plugs I have been using for years under my muffs are really, really good: from McMaster-Carr (the green ones with a 33 NRR)......so good in fact that often I can't tell if my electronic muffs are working and if they are I still have to strain sometimes to hear range commands. Hence the search for the two-layered electronic system.

My hearing is not totally lost but it's not great; I'd like to keep what I have. Those of you that still have great hearing, the younger ones I reckon, be advised it's not fun being hard of hearing. Protect your hearing every time as best you can. Don't be this guy:
Crowded restaurant, pretty young waitress: "Hey, I was just thinking..... I get off in twenty minutes. I'd love to have a drink with you and... I live just down the street...."
You, having not understood a word of it: "Oh that's nice. I like seagulls."

[gaijin]

My experience as well Ned.
I picked up some 3M Peltor electronic plugs a couple years ago.
Shooting rifles/carbines was out of the question, even compensated 9mm handguns were too loud.
They were fine for hunting; it amplified sound and I could live with 1 shot being fired.

[HKGuns]

My bigger issue is my large guitar amps in the home.

No hearing protection for those and guns feel pretty tame by comparison with good muffs.

But yes, protect your hearing at all costs.

[Defaultmp3]

I've been testing everything I can get my hands on in a quest for electronic plugs that I can use under electronic muffs. So far, almost all of them work pretty well in that respect. So then it comes down to a few other things-- battery type / charging arrangement, controls / ergonomics. Those that I have, have decent power arrangements, either small batteries or recharging stations / cord. Controls vary from pretty dang good to truly awful.

Why use electronic plugs under electronic muffs instead of going the NFMI route?

[Ned Christiansen]

Had not heard of it but as I read it they need to used in synch with their muffs, right? Spending money in this quest is getting old plus I'd rather not be locked into one set of muffs. And I see..... black foamies. Do you find this a super-effective combo? Would love to hear about it, and... how about using the plugs only for when you are not right up in the action but maybe 50 yards back, will the function without the muffs?

[crosseyedshooter]

I bought a set of those AXIL GS Extreme 2.0 earbuds that have been spamming YouTube and Facebook, but I was also tired of not being able to hear much with double ear pro. They were on sale for $100, so I figured why not. I use them under a set of MS Sordins and the protection is quite comfortable for indoor shooting with compensated pistols. I’ve yet to use this setup with rifles.

The sound quality isn’t great but I’m able to hear everything as if I wasn’t wearing any ear pro.

[Defaultmp3]

Had not heard of it but as I read it they need to used in synch with their muffs, right? Spending money in this quest is getting old plus I'd rather not be locked into one set of muffs. And I see..... black foamies. Do you find this a super-effective combo? Would love to hear about it, and... how about using the plugs only for when you are not right up in the action but maybe 50 yards back, will the function without the muffs?

I'm don't see the issue with whatever tips are provided; it's quite easy to simply swap them out for whatever you want. If you've been having bad results with the stock foamies, that's likely either user error when donning them, or else they simply aren't a proper fit for your ears. Either way, there are a huge number of choices that you can use to swap them out (Shure olives, triple flanges, and yellow foamies, 3M Skull Screws, the bazillion Comply tips available).

For background, I started out simply using Shure IEMs with the triple flange as passive hearing protection on the pistol range. I then upgraded to MSA Sordin Supreme-Xs with SureFire plugs using Shure olives, before trying out the Safariland Liberator HPs with the SureFires for a bit, before finally settling on the AMPs with NFMI plugs with Comply Canal Tips.

I think that the noise suppression is absolutely stellar with the AMPs/NFMI plug combination, with excellent situational awareness and sound reproduction. In terms of situational awareness, if bare actives muffs are a 100, active muffs paired with normal foamies are a 20, active muffs paired with the SureFires with the filter caps open are a 50, and the AMPs/NFMI are probably a 98. In terms of sound suppression, the AMPs/NFMI plug combination is also excellent, with me feeling just fine standing next to a guy running a 10.3" and a brake while everyone else with just muffs definitely were wincing and doubling up usually afterwards.

Yes, you will have to pair the AMPs with the NFMI plugs (and you have to get the NFMI-enabled AMPs). The plugs alone, without the muffs, are excellent passive hearing protection, IME, with the tips I've chosen for my ear, but you are definitely going to have all the lack of situational awareness that comes with excellent passive protection. If you want to be able to run just the plugs in active mode, your only option would be to ball out and get the Peltor system consisting of the SCU-300, TEP-300, and ComTac VII.

Or, you can always try and see how the ComTac VI's earplug mode works while rolling with passive plugs, though you'd still be SOL when you take the muffs off.