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Thread: Gun sluggish/problems chambering in "cold"

  1. #81
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    Correct- it shouldn't matter at all.

    I believe that he just put a brand new spring in there. Colt isn't the be all end all in springs. I have purchased new ones that weren't far off from being at the failure point.

    I would be tempted to use a Springco spring (I have a secret compact with them and get kick backs for purchases).

    There is something else happening and I can't put my finger on it, just yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by eternal24k View Post
    I cannot see how the gas system would affect the function of chambering the first round from a mag


    As mentioned, check the spring length. EWL should be good-to-go for those temps, I use it all winter, and we actually have winter here

    Buffer springs are one of the things I used to cheap out on, but have learned that it is one of the areas where quality really shines. I buy my springs from SAW, Colt OEM only



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  2. #82
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    this definitely seems like a place where the A5 with the rifle spring would shine.

    Retreat,
    have you tried different lowers and/or examined this lower for oddities? I would look at the bolt catch for odd wear marks or anything out of the ordinary.
    Last edited by eternal24k; 01-20-12 at 08:35.

  3. #83
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    Alright, collected some more data for you here.


    1. I made a mistake with my initial round count a mentioned. As of the other night, this gun has 4,720 rounds through it.

    2. BCM BCG with the black insert AND the O-Ring. I've been told it isn't quite necessary for mid-length systems, but went ahead and installed it on this particular one. Here's a pic I just snapped of the bolt/extractor setup just after taking it out for the very first time:


    Do you think using the O-ring could be an issue here?

    3. Correct, only when it gets down to around 55-40 degrees (or colder I assume, but it doesn't usually get colder than that, and if it does I'm likely not shooting)

    Please also note that this also ONLY happens while running the gun SUPPRESSED.

    4. Yes I know it ain't actually "cold," as I was always used to much colder winters in Oklahoma before moving here. I never shot guns there though

    5. No degradation of accuracy noted. In my most previous class (McNamara TAPS) I won a little "contest" shooting from 200-25 yards using his 6" rifle bulls. In same class the next day I shot 10" steel squares with ease out to 350 yards.

    However, I guess that's not to say there couldn't still be some. I would assume not though, and I haven't seen anything crazy with it while shooting (albeit all close range since class).

    6. Just stared at those components and nothing stands out, looks good as far as I can tell.


    Any of that help you out to make any sort of plausible determination(s)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    I have tried to follow with this thread as I was curious as well as to what was going on. I cannot for the life of me figure out what is causing this- internet diagnosis and all.

    Video 3 was interesting in that it seems as if there may be too much tension on the extractor which is why it wouldn't grab the rim.

    If you don' mind, do a little recap for me.

    1. How many rounds through this AR total (SWAG)?

    2. What exactly is your extractor set up? Colt, BCM, ?? O-ring or no O-ring?

    3. This is only happening in cold weather and not when it's warmer?

    4. I will also agree with a few others here. The temps you are experiencing aren't "cold" per se and I know that I have experienced similar conditions in Arizona and overseas.

    5. Have you noticed any change in the accuracy of the weapon from when you first started shooting it?

    6. Can you see any abnormal or odd wear in the chamber extension or the bolt lugs?


    I have some possible suspicions, but I am going to hold them to myself for the moment.
    S/F
    Paul

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by eternal24k View Post
    this definitely seems like a place where the A5 with the rifle spring would shine.

    Retreat,
    have you tried different lowers and/or examined this lower for oddities? I would look at the bolt catch for odd wear marks or anything out of the ordinary.
    I messed around with a couple A5 systems and got tired of trying to make everything perfect for every gun, and went back to standard carbine REs/Springs/buffers to keep things simple. Been doing that with a lot of aftermarket upgrades and such lately, actually. (although for my 18" SPR I'm still running an A5 on that one with great success)

    Yes I've used 2 different lowers now. You'll notice in the pics/videos on the previous page that the lower is a black Larue billet lower, while the upper is painted. I'd swapped lowers just before to see if a "fresh" lower would have issues as well (obviously it did).
    S/F
    Paul

  5. #85
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    Paul,

    I would encourage you to toss that O-ring in the trash. Then tell us what happens. You absolutely do not need it with a midlength or most other AR's.

    I haveseen them cause numerous FTF issues.



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  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iraqgunz View Post
    Paul,

    I would encourage you to toss that O-ring in the trash. Then tell us what happens. You absolutely do not need it with a midlength or most other AR's.

    I haveseen them cause numerous FTF issues.
    Roger. Done.

    I assume in this case "FTF" means Failure To Feed, not Fire, correct? Just wanna make completely sure I'm tracking everything here

    I said in my OP that I wouldn't be surprised if its something simple/stupid that's the issue. And an O-ring certainly fits the bill for that. Guess I'll just have to wait and see next range trip.

    Will be going to the range again early next week sometime and will once again shoot well into the night. I'll update immediately afterward. I hope shit gets squared away because I've got a low-light class on the 30-31 this month. Be nice to have a gun that loads properly.
    S/F
    Paul

  7. #87
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    Failure to Feed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RetreatHell View Post
    Roger. Done.

    I assume in this case "FTF" means Failure To Feed, not Fire, correct? Just wanna make completely sure I'm tracking everything here

    I said in my OP that I wouldn't be surprised if its something simple/stupid that's the issue. And an O-ring certainly fits the bill for that. Guess I'll just have to wait and see next range trip.

    Will be going to the range again early next week sometime and will once again shoot well into the night. I'll update immediately afterward. I hope shit gets squared away because I've got a low-light class on the 30-31 this month. Be nice to have a gun that loads properly.



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  8. #88
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    I had the same exact problem that you had in your first two vids. It was with an Armalite carbine upper on a Colt match target rifle lower. Both times it happened the temp was in the low 30’s or high 20’s. It happened after about 100 or so rounds. The action would start slowing down becoming sluggish and then it would not feed from a full mag when using the bolt catch. I had no problem when using the Colt upper. I didn’t keep the upper for very long so I don’t know what was causing the problem. I was not shooting suppressed and the upper was clean and well lubed.
    Certified Glock Armorer

  9. #89
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    I might be pulling this out of my ass, but do me a favor and thoroughly clean that upper (do not re-oil), then, with the BCG removed, take a real close look inside the upper where the bolt cam pin rides against the inside of the receiver.

    The first place lube gets burned off in the upper is right around that area which coincides with the end of the gas tube and is the immediate area surrounding the gas tube/carrier key mate-up. This is the place that gets the most fouling when the carrier key and gas tube seperate during the cycle and all excess pressure and carbon in the system vent.

    If there is a burr of some sort or an indent that has developed on the inside of the upper where the cam pin rides that cooresponds with the area where the bolt comes into contact with the top round of the magazine and the cam pin is actually put under pressure against the inside of the receiver as the bolt tries to collapse into the carrier by the force of stripping the top round off of the top of the magazine, this might cause the issue that you're experiencing especially if you have some sort of indent in that location and are running dirty.

    Then for shits and giggles, look at the exact opposite side of the same area in the inside of the upper where the carrier would be forced the opposite way and the carrier key would be placing opposite pressure.

    Lastly, take a good long look at your gas tube and see if it's slightly bent enough that even though it allows a mateup between the carrier key and gas tube, perhaps it is adding enough friction to add to the issue.

    Perhaps the system works fine with enough lube and running cleaner (unsuppressed), but when you add the extra fouling it allows the issues to stack up. When you pull the BCG all the way to the rear and fully compress the action spring, it may have enough power to overcome all of this, but when you manually drop the BCG using the bolt catch, it just doesn't have the "oomph" to bypass whatever is causing the extra friction.

    Something along the same lines as why some folks advocate slingshotting the slide of a piston on reload instead of using the slide catch to drop the slide.

    Like I said, perhaps i'm talking out of my ass, straying out of my lane, etc., but it's something to look at I suppose. Can't hurt.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skintop911 View Post
    40-50 degrees is not cold. It might be cold perceptually to you warmer-climate guys, but it's not cold for the operating system. Your gun should not require any lube adjustments, special applications, or any change from normal PM at that temperature. It's performance should not vary at that temperature. If it does, and you are using known-good GI spec parts, your gun is broken and needs more detailed in-person inspection and diagnostics that can't be done via the net.

    If we were talking about temps much lower than that, freezing or below, that might be a variable. Up here in the northern tier, too many guns run well without special treatment to even think about temp in this case.
    This. ^^^

    It's the buffer spring.

    I shoot sub-freezing temps frequently & have shot at around 0 degrees with no issues (2 different rifles).

    Reason?

    Less people at the range. Only hardcores.

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