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Thread: Zeroing my sights - what's normal and what isn't?

  1. #11
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    I recently got a BCM ltwt middy with FSP and DD A1.5 rear sight. After siting in at 50 yards, the rear sight is 13 clicks to the left, which leaves about 7 clicks left until the aperture hits the sight body. It may be slightly more or less off center and I'm not sure since the DD A1.5 rear sight doesn't have a distinct line for the center position.

    The windage is fine at 100 yards. I'm not sure about 200 yards, but I can consistenly hit a 12x12 plate at about 250, so I say close enough.

    I'm currently running the BCM with only irons until I can add a RDS later this month. I actually didn't notice how much offset the rear aperture was until I came across a similar thread to this one on another forum. The only potential "problem" that I can see is that once I add the RDS, the offset rear aperture may be distracting in lower 1/3 cowitness with the irons. My current setups have been absolute cowitness with flip up sights. But I'll have to wait and see when I get the RDS, but I think it'll be fine.

  2. #12
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    drck1000, once you add an RDS, it'll have to be zeroed the same as the irons, so your 1/3rd cowitness will line up just fine, regardless of windage adjustment for zero.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  3. #13
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    The other month helping a friend zero a Matech rear we cranked it significantly to the left, can't remember the number of clicks, but it was quite a few. He ended up with a nice 5 shot rats nest at 25 meters and grouped fine with the junk bulk ammo at 100 meters. That said, I've got an old A.R.M.S. rear BUIS, that I have never had to adjust it more then a few clicks to get it zeroed. I don't know, maybe a combination of irons, rifle, and shooter? Now my Aimpoint in the original Aimpoint mount? Lol, that thing took me a few too many rounds to get to where I wanted it.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    drck1000, once you add an RDS, it'll have to be zeroed the same as the irons, so your 1/3rd cowitness will line up just fine, regardless of windage adjustment for zero.
    Yeah, I hope the RDS will align with the irons. However, i assumed that if the FSP/barrel is slightly out of alignment, if the rail on the upper is off, or if the sight body is off, then the RDS may not line up with the irons.

    I understand that the RDS and irons don't need to align, but if they don't, the misalignment of the rear aperture and RDS may be distracting as I may tend to try to align the rear aperture and the FSP. I'll just have to wait and see. I also have an ARMS #40 rear sight to try out to see if the DD A1.5 rear sight is off.

  5. #15
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    They'll align no matter what since the irons are lined up on you point of impact as is your RDS. So, no mater how you look at it, both have to have a point of aim that is the same in order to have the same point of impact.

    The red dot moves with you and stays on target, so when you view the target through your irons, the red dot will also be visible as it too is on target.

    It's no different than a mechanical zero being perfectly aligned or it needed 11 clicks of windage, the red dot will still align through the irons if both are zeroed.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 01-13-12 at 23:21.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  6. #16
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    I think he means the rear aperture will not be centered in the Aimpoint.

    If it's cranked way over to the left, he's right, it won't be.

    I had an upper that would only zero with the rear sight 2 clicks shy of all the way left. Got on my nerves and I eventually parted it out.

    I'd try a different rear sight or two and if it's the upper, send it back.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by samuse View Post
    I think he means the rear aperture will not be centered in the Aimpoint.

    If it's cranked way over to the left, he's right, it won't be.

    I had an upper that would only zero with the rear sight 2 clicks shy of all the way left. Got on my nerves and I eventually parted it out.

    I'd try a different rear sight or two and if it's the upper, send it back.
    Ok, I just cranked my KAC rear sight all the way to the left with a T1. If I zero the T1, all three will line up, but I see what you're saying about the rear aperture itself being offset to the left of the Aimpoint.

    But, how often do you actually line up all three? Also, how often do you even line them up when viewing your dot over your irons. If I take the time to center my dot in my sight picture, I'm not actually taking advantage of one of the red dot's primary features…

    Now, two clicks shy of all the way left is too much. In his case, it depends on the adjustment if he'd be able to send it back since there's a standard.

    The other option, if you're OCD, is to reinstall the barrel since the torque on the barrel nut can push the barrel to one side.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 01-15-12 at 19:59.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  8. #18
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    It is not at all unusual for the dot not to sit on the tip of the FSP when both are zeroed.
    Further, there is no need to combine the dot and iron sight alignment. Doing so only serves to complicate and slow the presentation.
    Jack Leuba
    Director, Military and Government Sales
    Knight's Armament Company
    jleuba@knightarmco.com

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    It is not at all unusual for the dot not to sit on the tip of the FSP when both are zeroed.
    I assumed it could end up with the dot not directly above the FSP, even when the irons are aligned, if any number of things are slightly off. I wasn't expecting the dot to be directly above the FSP, but I admit that I prefer if it did end up that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failure2Stop View Post
    Further, there is no need to combine the dot and iron sight alignment. Doing so only serves to complicate and slow the presentation.
    Just to clarify that I don't align the irons with the RDS when shooting. I have realized how much slower I am with target acquisition with irons than I am with a RDS and can't imagine how messed up I'd be if I tried to align the irons with the RDS.

    Previous to my new AR, I've only had RDS absolute cowitness with flip-up irons (both front and rear). The new AR will have an Aimpoint with lower 1/3 cowitness with a fixed rear sight and FSP. I've tried shooting with the RDS and the irons up and I've found that the front sight post is distracting. Seems like my eyes sometimes focuses on the sight post because it's so close to the dot.

    Coincidentally, with the absolute co-witness the dot is directly above the front sight if the irons are aligned. I guess I'll just have to wait until I have a chance to mount my RDS and just see how it turns out.

    I've also discussed this with the retailer and the manufacturer and both suggested trying a different rear sight, which I have since ordered. While the offset appears to be withing specified tolerance, I just think visually I would prefer a rear aperature more centered in the sight body. Again, I'll just have to try it out and see for myself.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by samuse View Post
    I think he means the rear aperture will not be centered in the Aimpoint.

    If it's cranked way over to the left, he's right, it won't be.

    I had an upper that would only zero with the rear sight 2 clicks shy of all the way left. Got on my nerves and I eventually parted it out.

    I'd try a different rear sight or two and if it's the upper, send it back.
    That's kind of what I was thinking. Again, I am not sure if that will be a distraction for me or not. . . yet. But I could see how it could be.

    I've read that the natural tendency is to center the FSP post and forks in the rear aperture, granted that's when shooting with irons only. I've only used flip up irons previous to my new AR, so that was never an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Ok, I just cranked my KAC rear sight all the way to the left with a T1. If I zero the T1, all three will line up, but I see what you're saying about the rear aperture itself being offset to the left of the Aimpoint.

    But, how often do you actually line up all three? Also, how often do you even line them up when viewing your dot over your irons. If I take the time to center my dot in my sight picture, I'm not actually taking advantage of one of the red dot's primary features…

    Now, two clicks shy of all the way left is too much. In his case, it depends on the adjustment if he'd be able to send it back since there's a standard.

    The other option, if you're OCD, is to reinstall the barrel since the torque on the barrel nut can push the barrel to one side.
    Yeah, I understand what you're saying. As I clarified in the previous post, I don't try to align the irons with the RDS. I just think that it may be a distraction of the natural tendency is to center the FSP in the rear aperture. I guess I'll just have to try it out and see for myself if it's truly a distraction or not.

    Believe me, I totally appreciate the advantage of the RDS and it's lack of parallax. As I mentioned above, I am MUCH slower shooting with irons than RDS, as expected. It's just that I think I am way too slow with irons, but that's another subject.

    Thank you very much for your insight on all of this!!! It is greatly appreciated.

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