let's see your scout rifle!

[Barry in IN]

I first read heard of a Scout rifle when I was in high school and Jeff Cooper was modifying Remington 600s. I truthfully thought it was kinda goofy. When the Steyr Scout came out, I thought it was silly.

Then several years later, I looked at a Steyr Scout in a gunshop since I'd not seen any before, snapped it to my shoulder, and said "Hey, this is kinda nice." I shot one a couple years later and had to have one. I got mine, have been messing with it for a few years now, and love it.
Sometimes, I have to try something to get it.

Here is the Steyr:


Before the Steyr, I had cobbled together this Near-Scout, a Yugo Mauser action with a Spanish FR-8 barrel.

It meets the Scout criteria except for weight, and might come close if I'd hollow out the stock. There is a lot of wood there.

And the Johnson Scout:

OK, it's faked by sitting a scope on top, but it's a handy pic to show people that a forward scope alone does not make a rifle a Scout.

[Gem1950]

R - L .223, .308 & .308

[okie john]

Purists do get a little carried away sometimes.

There are a few basic characteristics that define a scout. Purist forget that they aren't as rigid as you would think.

Here is the key characteristics http://www.steyrscout.org/project.htm

And as mentioned above, the forward mounted scope is NOT required to be a "scout".

It is my impression that Cooper felt over all weight, length, accuracy potential, and caliber was much more important to the concept of what made a rifle a "scout" verse just being another rifle.

According to Cooper, there are some good reasons to go with a low powered, forward mounted scope. his arguments for such a setup are worth of consideration.

While the forward mounted scope is an encouraged characteristic/feature, it's not defining one. simply having a forward mounted scope does not make a rifle a scout any more than not having one mean you don't have a scout.

I had a Scout built back in the 90s and hunted exclusively with it for several years. I also exchanged several letters with Cooper and Finn Aagaard about the Scout. You're absolutely right that the characteristics are flexible--basically, it's just a short, light rifle with a good sling and a trigger job.

The best part is that an M-4 with a red-dot sight is a LOT closer to being a Scout than the die-hards are willing to admit.


Okie John

[Gem1950]

I had a Scout built back in the 90s and hunted exclusively with it for several years. I also exchanged several letters with Cooper and Finn Aagaard about the Scout. You're absolutely right that the characteristics are flexible--basically, it's just a short, light rifle with a good sling and a trigger job.

The best part is that an M-4 with a red-dot sight is a LOT closer to being a Scout than the die-hards are willing to admit.


Okie John

Accept that it's not bolt action and half a dozen other characteristics (including caliber) that he, Cooper, wanted to see in a scout rifle. Not that it matters to me mind you. I have a Mini-14 in a pseudo scout set-up and love the way it handles. No purist here, but I do believe that there is something to be appreciated in the parameters Cooper set forth. It seems to me that what Cooper thought about the Scout Concept did vary and evolve on occasion but the fact that he endorsed the Steyr version says something about what he felt was most important. http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=971.0 http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=24.0

[Barry in IN]

Accept that it's not bolt action and half a dozen other characteristics (including caliber) that he, Cooper, wanted to see in a scout rifle. http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=971.0 http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php?topic=24.0

Nothing I've found that he wrote says a Scout has to be a bolt action. They ended up being bolts to meet the weight limit he proscribed, since a bolt action is usually the lightest repeating action for a specific cartridge class. Perhaps it could be done with an AR-10 action now. I would like to see how close it could get.

[Serlo II]

I personally love the simplicity and handling of a short powerful bolt gun such as the Ruger GSR.

Still - It does seem that an AR10 16" carbine in .308 would fit the performance criteria perfectly. A Knight's SR25 Carbine can hardly be called a poodle shooter. Its light, powerful, fast to pull off a quick shot and accurate.

[Gem1950]

Nothing I've found that he wrote says a Scout has to be a bolt action. They ended up being bolts to meet the weight limit he proscribed, since a bolt action is usually the lightest repeating action for a specific cartridge class. Perhaps it could be done with an AR-10 action now. I would like to see how close it could get.

I think that it is generally accepted that Cooper never considered the semi-auto in his concept of the scout rifle because there are no examples of him ever doing so. If he had I'm sure that there would have been numerous first hand accounts of such an event.

[Serlo II]

I know we all view this differently but I for one like the Scout Rifle concept but do not hang onto Jeff Cooper's words like gospel. He has a brilliant common sense but life moves on.

To me its the performance, capability and concept that is interesting.

[Gem1950]

I know we all view this differently but I for one like the Scout Rifle concept but do not hang onto Jeff Cooper's words like gospel. He has a brilliant common sense but life moves on.

To me its the performance, capability and concept that is interesting.

Of course. I do not recall seeing any of his specifications on the two tablets.

[Barry in IN]

Col Cooper would touch on semiautos in his Commentaries, but I think only because people kept asking him about them. He would say a semiauto Scout should be OK if they could meet the weight limit, but I think he in fact didn't like the thought of a semiauto Scout.

With the exception of the original 1950s AR-10s that were pretty scarce, there was probably no semiauto action light enough to get very close to the weight when he was cooking this up, so I suppose it was a valid point at the time.

Regarding how closely the specs are followed, the Scout is probably the only thing of his I follow rigidly. As far as I know, it is the only "class" of firearm he created and guarded the "rules" seriously. It seemed to annoy him greatly when someone threw a pistol scope on a 10 pound .223 and called it a Scout, which I can understand because it missed the point entirely.
I figure that if he could spend three decades, travel to two or three continents testing, and lay out unknown dollars towards experimenting to get it where he wanted it, I can respect that by not calling a rifle "Scout" if he wouldn't.

In my mind, a rifle has to meet certain criteria to be a Scout, but another rifle that comes only reasonably close can still be one heck of a rifle.

On a somewhat related note, it seems like a lot of people miss the point of them, or don't know what a scout rifle is for. I get the impression they seem to think it was an attempt at a standard issue military rifle. The comments I hear about mine from other shooters at the range indicate that. If that person is a hunter, his comment will be something like "That's interesting I guess, but I like sportin' rifles". If more "tactical minded", the comment will be something like asking why Jeff Cooper thought we should go back to bolt actions for regular issue. When I slip in a comment about hunting with it, they get a look like they'd give me if I suggested using a .22 pocket pistol.

I don't know what makes them think it is anything other than a hunting/general purpose rifle. The plan was that it could be pressed into service against people if it was what you had, which is where the rapid reloading part came from, but not as it's main purpose.

Maybe it's the similarity to the Enfield Jungle Carbine. Maybe it's from seeing more M1A "Scouts" than anything else. I'd say it was from people hearing "Scout" and thinking "Scout-Sniper" but I think most people who know of the term scout in the military sense know enough to not jump to the conclusion he was trying to rearm the world's armies with bolt guns.