Knife Snobs Enlighten Me. $2300 for a Combat Knife?

[okie john]

Your buddy can do what he wants with his money. But if he had showed up my old team room with that on his web gear, it would have called his professional judgement seriously into doubt.

And that's before we found out about the price.


Okie John

[Cesiumsponge]

I am a part-time knife snob. Would I buy a $2300 blade if I had the means to? Yes, and I have. Would I buy a $2300 tactical blade? Absolutely not. Tactical blades by nature are utilitarian and don't have lipstick. Tactical knife companies advertise their wares by subjecting their products to ridiculous torture tests to prove their toughness. There is simply nothing in my mind that justifies the inflated cost past a certain point for a tactical blade. Nowadays, everyone and their brother make a tactical blade...I see a lot of poor designs lacking in proper edge geometry, blade geometry, balance, etc. You can just laser cut blanks out of plate stock, grind a sharp edge, and sell it as tacticool. I suppose it's possible folks will start passing off custom tactical blades as art knives "because art is subjective", but I hope not. Last thing I want to see is some Andy Warhol wiseguy passing off cans of soup as an "art knife".

Most generic cutlery is made with 440A or 440B, a step above the 420 stainless for drawer junk (think your cheapo $50 Macy's kitchen knife sets). Assuming it's 440C, that makes it one step above the aforementioned steels, but not much. As a knife steel, it's mediocre at best, similar to AUS-8 or other mid-grade steels. Knife snobs and even knife hobbyists wouldn't bother with 440C.

I don't know why a custom knife maker would use 440C as his medium, then charge $2300. You'll be hard pressed to find many reputable knife companies selling knives using 440C over the $50 mark. Most better companies don't even have 440C in their lineup. High grade steels like S30V, S60V, VG-10, D2, 154CM, ZDP-189, M4, etc are far superior (even cutting-edge) steels with fantastic properties in hardness, toughness, durability, and sharpness. They don't cost that much more at all. Benchmade and Spyderco have all sorts of entry-level lines starting at $50-75 which give you those, and unless you're paying a premium for "the name", they top out at $150-300 at best if you're looking for a "user blade" (something that doesn't hang out in a glass case), a bit more if you're setting up a dress knife like a Chris Reeves. mkmckinley mentioned Busse, they use INFI, tough stuff. I have a few and they're expensive, but they're indestructible.

There really isn't a tacticool knife generally worth more than $300-400 in my opinion because the labor simply isn't in it to justify the price. Once a knife goes north of $400, you're getting into damascus steels, or a lot of intricate handwork in an art knife. $2300 will get you a hell of an art knife with things like exotic titanium damascus, wooly mammoth ivory, rubies, gold, intricate filework, mosaic damascus, and hand-sculpted metal...something that actually has some pedigree when it comes to craftsmanship.

About 5 years ago, $2000 got me a mumei wakizashi (short sword, little brother to the katana) in fresh full polish, forged during the Japanese Enpo period (late 1670's), with NTHK papers (one of several groups that certify the authenticity of Japanese antique blades). That poor swordsmith smashed a lump of steel by candlelight repeatedly for endless nights until it turned into a gem, survived for over 300 years and has found it's way into my care. $2000 was a steal.

I spent about the same on a Michael Bell cable-forged katana years ago before they got big, a modern swordsmith that does a Japanese-influenced blade. In either case, incredible number of hours forging, hand grinding on wet stones, and hand polishing to very specific geometry guidelines to end up with a differentially heat-treated blade with hundreds of layers of folded steel and crisp edges. Some folks might think I'm crazy to pay that kind of money, and maybe I am, but those two examples took a lot of blood and sweat to create.

A Rolex is a fine piece of jewelry. They make their own movements. But when a knifemaker charges $2300 for something made out of 440C, you're paying Rolex prices for Invicta.

[CDR_Glock]

Definitely not worth the $2300. By an apprentice???? How much was the full priced version?

What's so special about that odd looking scabbard/sheath?

So is he using the knife, displaying it, or just locking it up in a safe? Does he have other high priced low grade items, as well. I'm sure this wasn't the first, nor the last for him.


iPad/Tapatalk

[mkmckinley]

...About 5 years ago, $2000 got me a mumei wakizashi (short sword, little brother to the katana) in fresh full polish, forged during the Japanese Enpo period (late 1670's), with NTHK papers (one of several groups that certify the authenticity of Japanese antique blades). That poor swordsmith smashed a lump of steel by candlelight repeatedly for endless nights until it turned into a gem, survived for over 300 years and has found it's way into my care. $2000 was a steal.

I spent about the same on a Michael Bell cable-forged katana years ago before they got big, a modern swordsmith that does a Japanese-influenced blade. In either case, incredible number of hours forging, hand grinding on wet stones, and hand polishing to very specific geometry guidelines to end up with a differentially heat-treated blade with hundreds of layers of folded steel and crisp edges. Some folks might think I'm crazy to pay that kind of money, and maybe I am, but those two examples took a lot of blood and sweat to create.

Great post. Not to mention who wants to go out and use/abuse/jump/lose a $2300 tool when a $100-$500 tool would have done just as well if not better.

Any chance you could post some pictures of the afore mentioned blades? It's torture reading what you have to say about them and not getting to have a look.

[ggp2jz]

Ill stick to my ZT0350. For 2300 it had better come with a 21 year old hot asian chick who will cup your balls in the winter to keep them warm and blow you whenever you damn well want.

[WillBrink]

You can just laser cut blanks out of plate stock, grind a sharp edge, and sell it as tacticool.

And they do...your post was educational, useful, and dead on. Thanx! Rolex is a poor example as it's value is not all that subjective and a surprisingly good watch for the $$$, which can't be said for that knife, unless OP has his details wrong.

Going OT: Interestingly, the more I have learned about watches, the more I have actually come to respect Rolex; quite the opposite of what I had expected.

[Cesiumsponge]

There are plenty of incredible examples if you Google images of "nihonto hamon" and my photos suck at capturing it without studio lighting. I'm also lazy because it involves a careful strip and cleaning with alcohol to remove protective oil or you can't see the grain. Each cleaning scratches the blade and repeated cleanings obscures the grain and requires a repolish, which is a very expensive venture on a years-long waiting list. It also removes metal so eventually you're going to punch through the hardened layer of steel into the soft core and the value of the sword is gone. And when you have it out...you want to oogle it for an hour. This is a "cheap" blade too...folks will pay six figures for a famous smith/school!

But here are some older photos I uploaded. None of that is acid etched to bring out the steel grain like all modern blades that look similar (save a few traditional smiths still in Japan). It's all hand filed, hand ground, and hand polished with progressively finer and different hardnesses of waterstones until it "pops out". The longer you stare, the more activity you can see in the steel. Little waves, streaks, humps and loops...it's artistry in pearlite and martensite.



The modern "inspired" katana isn't remotely as nice. I'll manhandle it more and doesn't have the nice, traditional polish so the lines of the geometry aren't nearly as crisp. I'll try to take a photo later on but my camera is on loan. It was forged from a piece of wire rope cabling and it looks damn cool. I don't fault anyone for spending money on whatever they want. I just quantified my opinion that $2300 for a tactical blade made out of 440C is crazy by my standards. I wouldn't hesitate to use a $2300 tool and abuse it. Many of my rifles cost much more than that, but they're that expensive for a justifiable reason. Some folks will say I'm damned nuts for paying $2000 for a piece of 300 year old steel that would shatter if you cut at the wrong angle and rusts if you so much as breathe on it. Maybe they're right too.

[Devildog1988]

2300!!!! for a knife!!! Im so angry!! WTF!! Does your buddy not know what kind of rifle that will buy? someone else on here said, point end goes into the other guy. im in complete agreement. unless that knife can fight off an attacker while I go get my AR, and then get me a nice cool glass of water afterwards, 2300 is wayy too much.

[mercop]

IMHO the best hard use custom "combat knives" are made by Jim Behring owner of Treeman knives. There are lesser knives that cost more money.- George

[Battle*Hound]

It only has one use..... to stab or cut things..... there isn't $2300 worth of improvements to be made to cutting or stabbing things.... that is... unless its a little chainsaw with teeth made from unobtainium and a straw in the handle......

Too funny yet too true