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Thread: Tell me about a NFA Trust?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett View Post
    Imagine people charging money for their services. What tools. My lawn guy is here now. I could do my own yard! I think I'll go outside and cuss him out for charging me money for something I could do myself. Especially since if I screw it up I wont loose 1000's of dollars and possibly go to jail.....
    Yeah ... lots of people don't mow their own yards. I understand. Maybe someone even pays for having their butt wiped but for the vast majority of us out there we have to do things on our own because that's how it is. I am not advocating that someone takes out their 3rd and 4th rib to give themselves a BJ to avoid having to take a girl out for an evening by any means.

    But to be honest no one I know has a silver spoon in their mouth and quite frankly if you can empower someone to do something for themselves then I am of firm belief that you do it. I just do not believe that folks should buy into these horror stories that someone posts online and then tells you to pay them to solve problems that are not really there. Case in point a stupid Trust. Which there is no such thing as an NFA Trust - it is just a Trust - this need a lawyer crap is some BS that these lawyers are putting on their websites to sell you their services which anyone can easily do themselves. No point in scaring people for no reason - that's the part that irks me.

  2. #32
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    If the trust we're a few hundred bucks I would pay a lawyer. Last quote I had was over $1,000.
    Last edited by usmcvet; 01-21-12 at 20:00.
    "Real men have always needed to know what time it is so they are at the airfield on time, pumping rounds into savages at the right time, etc. Being able to see such in the dark while light weights were comfy in bed without using a light required luminous material." -Originally Posted by ramairthree

  3. #33
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    Most gun trust lawyers have on their websites somewhere a repost of a blog from Joshua Prince. It goes like this on most of the sites:

    Joshua Prince alerted me to a blog post on a developing situation he ran across on Subguns where an individual used Quicken to attempt to create a trust for NFA purposes. Unfortunately the BATFE has now decided that his Quicken trust was invalid and is seeking to seize his MAC-11 and Silencer. He could also be subject to a prison sentence of 10 years and $250,000 in fines.

    This is a very unfortunate situation that could cost the individual severely. Its important to remember that just because the ATF approves your transfer, it does not mean that you are legally in possession. This is the second situation involving invalid trusts and the ATF that we have seen this month. It looks like the ATF is beginning to look more closely at the trust documents they are receiving.

    If you created a trust for NFA purchases in Quicken, Legal Zoom, or used another generic trust that was not reviewed before buy a lawyer before submitting it to the BATFE, you should contact a NFA trust attorney to review your trust for validity. If you need help finding a local NFA Trust Lawyer we can help. We work with attorneys in more than 40 states including Florida Gun Trust Lawyer®s and South Carolina NFA lawyers to help review and create valid NFA trusts.
    AFAIK, this is the only example of Quicken etc gun trusts causing trouble, and it's worth noting that they're all from gun trust attorneys and all from the same source. Furthermore, the referenced post on Subguns (or Silencertalk, depending on which version you read) has been taken down, and there are apparent "questions" as to the validity of the whole scenario. Take it for what it's worth.

    Some additional info: http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2009/0...ken-trust.html
    Last edited by Hmac; 01-21-12 at 20:07.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by usmcvet View Post
    If you have an attorney prepared NFA trust already why not just re type it and add what you need each time you add items.
    I had to retype the entire document anyway to change everything that was wrong and to fix the horrible formatting. He didn't send me an electronic copy Although the document seemed to be legally valid, the grade school quality of it and his reluctance to contact me makes me question it...

    I contacted David Goldman at Apple Law Firm and he agreed to take a look at the changes I had to make, to make sure it is G2G from a federal/NFA standpoint.

  5. #35
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    Here is a very good over view of how one individual has done it.

    Very easy to understand. Keep in mind the Trust has a different purpose for different people.

    People that can't get CLEO sig. - the Trust affords them a means.

    Overall though the Trust is to protect your valuables and pass them along to others when you die without them getting into hot water.

    Anyway this may not cover every detail but it makes it pretty clear how things are supposed to work.

    http://forums.officer.com/showthread...ute-to-the-NFA

    Also quicken 2008 in not the last year that offers a Trust feature. You can get Quicken 2011 with Trust for $22 or current 2012 version with online free access to Trust maker. for $60 or less.

    .....Which there is no such thing as an NFA Trust - it is just a Trust -.....
    Semantics.. anyone that has -not- grasped that concept probably does indeed need a lawyer or at a minimum some quality education on the subject. Javelin, with all due respect you are looking at this through your personal situation only. To some it will be more about the safety, security and peace of mind of the beneficiary than the money.

    Here is one very simple scenario for you. A young soldier want's an NFA item. He has a single Mother ( who knows little and cares even less about guns ) and a 16 year old sister. He flies across the world and gets killed in battle. Now wouldn't it be nice if his mother could have the peace of mind to be able to pick up the phone and call a lawyer to help her settle the estate rather than have to ask the next door neighbor or uncle Jim? The money spent with a lawyer or software is not about the piece of paper and getting to buy a suppressor. It's about being responsible and protecting your family and staying legal.

    If the Grantor, Trustee and Beneficiary are all well educated on the subject, then DIY is fine.

    If only the Grantor/Primary Trustee is educated on the subject then a lawyer is probably the best route.
    Last edited by tb-av; 01-21-12 at 21:40.

  6. #36
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    +1 and there is another reason...

    I used Quicken for the template in 2007 and paid a "gun lawyer" to review it (30 mins billable time!)... It was 100% flood to go for Colorado at least.

    Also, keep in mind...NFA Trust's are a great way to allow others you know/trust to share in the weapons/items owned by that Trust. Friends, relatives, immediate family. With a Trust, anybody named as a Trustee may legally possess the items listed as property of that Trust...because they are part of the "corporation" that is the registered owner.

    Food for thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    Here is a very good over view of how one individual has done it.

    Very easy to understand. Keep in mind the Trust has a different purpose for different people.

    People that can't get CLEO sig. - the Trust affords them a means.

    Overall though the Trust is to protect your valuables and pass them along to others when you die without them getting into hot water.

    Anyway this may not cover every detail but it makes it pretty clear how things are supposed to work.

    http://forums.officer.com/showthread...ute-to-the-NFA

    Also quicken 2008 in not the last year that offers a Trust feature. You can get Quicken 2011 with Trust for $22 or current 2012 version with online free access to Trust maker. for $60 or less.



    Semantics.. anyone that has -not- grasped that concept probably does indeed need a lawyer or at a minimum some quality education on the subject. Javelin, with all due respect you are looking at this through your personal situation only. To some it will be more about the safety, security and peace of mind of the beneficiary than the money.

    Here is one very simple scenario for you. A young soldier want's an NFA item. He has a single Mother ( who knows little and cares even less about guns ) and a 16 year old sister. He flies across the world and gets killed in battle. Now wouldn't it be nice if his mother could have the peace of mind to be able to pick up the phone and call a lawyer to help her settle the estate rather than have to ask the next door neighbor or uncle Jim? The money spent with a lawyer or software is not about the piece of paper and getting to buy a suppressor. It's about being responsible and protecting your family and staying legal.

    If the Grantor, Trustee and Beneficiary are all well educated on the subject, then DIY is fine.

    If only the Grantor/Primary Trustee is educated on the subject then a lawyer is probably the best route.

  7. #37
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    +1 and there is another reason...

    I used Quicken for the template in 2007 and paid a "gun lawyer" to review it (30 mins billable time!)... It was 100% good to go for Colorado at least.

    Also, keep in mind...NFA Trust's are a great way to allow others you know/trust to share in the weapons/items owned by that Trust. Friends, relatives, immediate family. With a Trust, anybody named as a Trustee may legally possess the items listed as property of that Trust...because they are part of the "corporation" that is the registered owner.

    Food for thought...

    Quote Originally Posted by tb-av View Post
    Here is a very good over view of how one individual has done it.

    Very easy to understand. Keep in mind the Trust has a different purpose for different people.

    People that can't get CLEO sig. - the Trust affords them a means.

    Overall though the Trust is to protect your valuables and pass them along to others when you die without them getting into hot water.

    Anyway this may not cover every detail but it makes it pretty clear how things are supposed to work.

    http://forums.officer.com/showthread...ute-to-the-NFA

    Also quicken 2008 in not the last year that offers a Trust feature. You can get Quicken 2011 with Trust for $22 or current 2012 version with online free access to Trust maker. for $60 or less.



    Semantics.. anyone that has -not- grasped that concept probably does indeed need a lawyer or at a minimum some quality education on the subject. Javelin, with all due respect you are looking at this through your personal situation only. To some it will be more about the safety, security and peace of mind of the beneficiary than the money.

    Here is one very simple scenario for you. A young soldier want's an NFA item. He has a single Mother ( who knows little and cares even less about guns ) and a 16 year old sister. He flies across the world and gets killed in battle. Now wouldn't it be nice if his mother could have the peace of mind to be able to pick up the phone and call a lawyer to help her settle the estate rather than have to ask the next door neighbor or uncle Jim? The money spent with a lawyer or software is not about the piece of paper and getting to buy a suppressor. It's about being responsible and protecting your family and staying legal.

    If the Grantor, Trustee and Beneficiary are all well educated on the subject, then DIY is fine.

    If only the Grantor/Primary Trustee is educated on the subject then a lawyer is probably the best route.

  8. #38
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    I used Quicken for the template in 2007 and paid a "gun lawyer" to review it (30 mins billable time!)... It was 100% good to go for Colorado at least.
    To be honest, I think that is probably the safest and smartest way to do it as it -forces- you to educate yourself prior to execution. It's like having your test graded so to speak.

    ...and yes that next point of yours is a good point for the trust while you are alive. It affords a level of enjoyment in NFA items that other methods may not.

  9. #39
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    Thanks for all the great responses and differing points of view.

  10. #40
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    There is at least one other equally long thread on this subject here somewhere. You may want to search it out as I seem to recall some people touched more on finer details as to why one method might be better for certain situations. Lawyer or DIY.

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