AR vs. Other Assault Rifles. Why the hate?

[MegademiC]

yet amazingly the enginerds seem incapable of making any progress in any one area without making something worse in another.

This shouldn't be hard. All we want is a gun that is exactly like the AR in every functional way (functional meaning external, not internal, and meaning keep the modularity) with true ambidextrous, mirrored, controls incorporating some increased ergonomics, that is lighter, cheaper, and more readily available.

what's so hard about that?

I think the best thing is what knights and colt (cm/sp901) are trying to do with the somewhat redesigned lower that takes standard uppers... now about the CHEAPER part... good luck.

I think the only way to cut cost would be to change materials and anything cheaper seems to not be as good structure-wise. Anything stronger and lighter than aluminum may be too brittle or will be a lot more expensive. Every industry wants something stronger and lighter, so it wont be cheaper due to demand, unless something gets a huge scale up real quick. Plastics bend too much, or are brittle, ceramics are too brittle, and nanocrystalline metals are very expensive, but would be very light. Its more of an economy issue than an engineering issue, it seems.

You could make something similar to an ar-180 cheaper, but you lose in other areas, as already stated.

OP. From what I can tell, ars are most loved since :
1 - made in U.S.
2 - LARGE support system
3 - reliable as any other(if made right)
4 - Best accuracy potential with match barrels
5- ergos and speed. They can be set up to be fully ambi and can be faster to operate than any other gun out there.

The next best thing we have here IMO is the AK which has a short handguard, slower reloads, and its barely any cheaper for a quality one. Some people prefer them, but most lean towards the AR. I honestly dont see much improvement left for firearms. I think the next step is gonna be a totally different weapon (small-arms rail guns maybe? And thats gonna be a LONG time).

[Doc Safari]

I made a journey back to AR's after a 10+ year lack of owning one. I always thought the weapon was too fragile, that is, until I watched Larry Vickers' torture test one, and after reading the "Filthy 14" article in SWAT magazine. I was sold on the rifle again, even if the carbine version will need parts replacements sooner than the full length rifle version. Light weight, accuracy, low recoil, and the ability to customize it any way you want made me sell off all of the rest of my collection in favor of it.

I've owned many other types of so-called assault weapons and battle rifles over the years, and all of them (including the AR) have their shortcomings, but I went back to the AR because it didn't suffer the same problems as others:

HK91: Too heavy and stout recoil
FAL: Too long and unwieldy
M14: Heavy
SKS: poor ability to upgrade to detacable mags
AK: poor ergonomics, accuracy, gun is heavy, no bolt hold-open

I'd like to say some more about the AK: I really tried to like it. It supposedly has legendary reliability but the poor quality control of a lot of makers negates this to a degree. I can't tell you how many I saw with canted sights before I bought mine. The US-made compliance parts are often crappy, too, as are the "conversions" of sporterized versions made to be legal first and quality second.

Yet I can buy a top tier M4 today, not do a damn thing to it except load a magazine and fire it, and I have the assurance that I have something that is the same quality as the real military version. I don't trust any US-compliant AK to be that.

Weekend before last, I shot my BCM M4 side-by-side with my AK. My M4 has shot right at 1,000 rounds without a single malfunction. Of course the AK's reliability is all that as well.

At 50 yards I shot my M4 with Aimpoint T1 mounted and could not miss. I only hit the target with the AK about 75% of the time. Whether it was the AK's accuracy, the ammo, the long trigger, crappy sights, or just me.....how would you like to miss about 25% of the time on the two-way range?

That was the kicker that made me decide to sell the AK and not maintain one in my collection anymore.

As far as the M4 goes, I'm beginning to prefer the pencil barrel version of that weapon just for the weight savings.

[crusader377]

OP. From what I can tell, ars are most loved since :
1 - made in U.S.
2 - LARGE support system
3 - reliable as any other(if made right)
4 - Best accuracy potential with match barrels
5- ergos and speed. They can be set up to be fully ambi and can be faster to operate than any other gun out there.

The next best thing we have here IMO is the AK which has a short handguard, slower reloads, and its barely any cheaper for a quality one. Some people prefer them, but most lean towards the AR. I honestly dont see much improvement left for firearms. I think the next step is gonna be a totally different weapon (small-arms rail guns maybe? And thats gonna be a LONG time).

I think this is a very good list on why American's prefer the AR and I would like to add one more. America does have a relatively large veterans community and I know that when I first decided to own a civilian semi-auto rifle 4 years ago, I picked an M4 because that is what I was issued in the Army and it held a nostalgic value to me. I don't think I'm unique regarding this and I do have other friends of mine who served in the military and went with an AR pattern rifle when they bought a rifle of their own as well.

[scottryan]

Because it is the best combination of accuracy, ergonomics, weight, modularity, adaptability, and reliability of any infantry rifle.

I have used and own almost every rifle ever to exist and I would never use any of them over an AR-15.

[SteyrAUG]

I own a large variety of 5.56 rifles.

My first grab in any serious situation is going to be something like a Colt 6520, and it isn't because I hate my other rifles. Some have advantages over the AR system but when you talk about total package I don't think anything beats the AR system.

[Javelin]

OK.... I'll play...

Due to some ridiculous laws in place in the US, we cannot get most types of foreign weapons. Considering this, it is little wonder that people prefer the weapon that they are more familiar with, and that is available for civilian purchase.


Given the choice, I would like to have any number of weapons, but considering what is available for civilian purchase, the AR is really the only logical choice for hard use, as it is really one of the only military grade weapons in the US that has any real user-support on a sustainable level.


Not only that, but the fact is that the AR-15/M-16 is a world-wide respected design that has performed well over a long service life in a wide variety of conditions, while retaining good ergonomics and sighting capabilities.

Good post.

And let's not forget that folks over the pond and in most other countries envy the military Colt AR platform. In many undeveloped countries (such as Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc) merely owning one is a symbol of power and authority. They are more fanatical than even some of the most rabid Hk owners here in the US.

[Pi3]

It's the local wine of the country. I wanted something that has readily available parts, that everyone knows how to work on, that is common. After lots of research, I got the basic lmt 14.5"/ fa bcg. At 6.2 lbs it does most of what I want. This site & the list were a tremendous help. Ambidextrous controls & a folding stock would be nice.

[Jaws]

OK.... I'll play...

Due to some ridiculous laws in place in the US, we cannot get most types of foreign weapons. Considering this, it is little wonder that people prefer the weapon that they are more familiar with, and that is available for civilian purchase.

I was trying to understand this for a while.
I live in Canada and our firearms laws straight out stink, yet for some reason US import legislation is much worse than ours. It's puzling how a country with such a strong suport for the right to own firearms can have such a messed up import legislation.
Part of the problem is that people expect every foreign company that makes firearms, is going to build factories in US and make every product they want inside US. This rarely works, and only very large companies, that can secure big contracts can afford that.

The other problem I see is that, when it comes to import legislation, the US firearms industry works hand in hand with the liberals. They work against you.

If all firearms suporters would work togheter, in a Country like USA, with such a strong community, this import laws could be fixed in less than a year.

[alaskacop]

Great responses and I tend to agree with most of the same reasons on the pros to the AR system. I suppose the reason I posted this question is because I tend to use a different system for work and play and have found that people tend to give me reactions ranging from mild curiousity to sheer horror (what the hell is THAT abonination?). I can expect this from other LEO's because most of them are not gun nuts and generally only know one system, usually because of prior military experience or because an AR is the first "assault rifle" they have been issued. What surprises me is when I attend a shooting match and fellow gun nuts give me those responses....

[Doc Safari]

...people tend to give me reactions ranging from mild curiousity to sheer horror (what the hell is THAT abonination?). I can expect this from other LEO's because most of them are not gun nuts and generally only know one system, usually because of prior military experience or because an AR is the first "assault rifle" they have been issued. What surprises me is when I attend a shooting match and fellow gun nuts give me those responses....

I hate to admit it but I've encountered outright bigotry toward AK's from some AR owners.

If I hear the phrase "crappy commie rifle" one more time.....

And you'd think talking to some of these guys that you must be an Al Qaeda sympathizer or a gangbanger or Mexican cartel member just for owning one.