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Thread: All this talk about buffers (confused)

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    An ideal and reliable cyclic rate and what feels best to the shoulder anent necessarily the same thing.

    Very true. However, is it not possible that both ends of that operating spectrum could be optimized. Maybe, maybe not. How would you ever know if you don't give it a try?

    What seems like harmless tinkering and make a less Eelam (What's a Ealam LE rifle) LE rifle that might not show itself at first.

    If it's a range gun or for competition, do whatever you please. If it's a work rifle, it's best to stick to what is suggested by the manufacturer for your particular ammo.

    I'm not LE or military. Just an average Joe that like to shoot, train and compete in matches when I can.

    As long as you prove the reliability of any changes made to a weapon what's the harm?
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    I'm looking for performance gains, or corrective action to achieve proper function. Splits, acccuracy, etc.
    Yes, those are worthy things to strive for. Although I don't know that buffers have anything to do with accuaracy.
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    Yes, those are worthy things to strive for. Although I don't know that buffers have anything to do with accuaracy.
    You asked if I tinker, I was answering the broader question... No, I don't mindless tinker with my guns because I read about it on the internet. I go and shoot. I establish deficiencies in the firearm, eliminate my personal performance as a cause, and attempt to rectify the situation. Typically what happens is I have perfectly good gear but my skillset improves to the point that I an overrun the headlights of the equipment I have and need new equipment.

    Which is the large part of the problem with threads like this. Take the OP, who probably has a PERFECTLY FUNCTIONAL FIREARM, and now because he read about a bunch of guys on the internut changing out parts he thinks he might somehow be deficient.

    It has gotten completely out of hand with people fiddle-****ing with ports, springs, buffers, triggers, etc. only to shoot 200 rounds a year. I guess it's nice to have a 10 second car sitting in the garage but if you ("you" in the general sense, not you in particular) never drive it who cares?

    For the sake of the newbies, these things should be made more clear in the various fiddle-**** threads. The time and effort is MUCH better spent in ammo. Buy a quality gun so you don't have to worry about it and go shoot. For the sake of these guys, if you're fiddle-****ing just say so, if you're trying to correct a true, known, observed issue discovered while actually shooting, explain what that is. But the softest shooting gun isn't going to help anyone if they stand bolt upright with a chicken-wing sticking out to the side.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    As long as you prove the reliability of any changes made to a weapon what's the harm?
    Believe me, I do my share of changing shit around. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as you know what may or may not happen.

    I went through that "softer shooting" phase. I realized even though it felt slightly softer, I was running the risk of short stroking (ammo dependent) and I wasn't really shooting any faster for what I was trying to achieve.

    EDIT - I had some strange iPad induced spelling errors in my first reply. Sorry about that.
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 01-29-12 at 13:25.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  5. #35
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    I think we're nearly on the same page rob. Good points.

    The things I did I wouldn't consider mindless. It was purpose driven and I kept records of what my results were. I like to know first hand how things work and I'm a see for yourself kind of guy. And yeah it's cost me some money. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this mindset.

    The things I did with the buffers, springs, BCGs I caulk up to a learning experience. And I did learn some things and don't consider it to be over yet even though I came full circle and back to my original setup.

    By the way......Anybody want to buy some buffers, springs and shit?

    Now the guy who shoots a couple of times a year....I don't see that type of person really caring what is going on with his weapon or having a desire to make any improvements to it. If it goes bang, he's good. If this type of AR owner does do it, it's most likely for the tacticool factor.
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    Believe me, I do my share of changing shit around. I don't think there's anything wrong with it as long as you know what may or may not happen.
    jon, I don't think I'm out of line by saying anyone who is really serious about ARs, how they work, their performance and improving their skills with it do this to some degree.

    Hey...I thought maybe you had developed a Jonconsiglio Ealam LE Rifle and we were the first to hear about it.
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    jon, I don't think I'm out of line by saying anyone who is really serious about ARs, how they work, their performance and improving their skills with it do this to some degree.

    Hey...I thought maybe you had developed a Jonconsiglio Ealam LE Rifle and we were the first to hear about it.
    I did. Then I realized I slipped and let the cat out of the bag, so I had to quickly edit it!

    You aren't familiar with the standard Eelam rifles??
    Last edited by jonconsiglio; 01-29-12 at 17:14.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~ Paul Howe

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by 308sako View Post
    Leads me to asking why?

    Heavier buffers will delay the opening of the action and lighter ones will do the opposite. It would appear that most shooters would like to have their rifles run smoothly and 100% without issues.

    But I think I am missing something in all this, if a rifle or carbine or SBR functions 100% why would one change out his/her buffer to another weight profile?

    Thanks

    The term "function" means different things to different people. Some mis-informed people would tell you that an over gassed AR (DPMS/RRA/BM/Oly/Etc) with a Car buffer is a good idea because it will shoot all types of ammo (AKA crap, under pressured ammo).

    The truth of the matter is that over gassed guns with light buffers and 5.56 ammo can actually cause the bolt to move so fast that the magazine cannot keep up with with feeding ammo and you get an empty chamber.

    On top of the above, you will receive more felt recoil which means slower follow up shots.

    Now if you have a gun with a correct GP size (Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, etc), the need to go above say an H buffer is minimal (unless you are running a suppressor).


    So first, look at your gun and figure out if it is over gassed or not (if you do not know, ask someone on the forum). Once that is figured out, choose a buffer that will best improve the reliability of your gun.



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 01-29-12 at 19:05.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The truth of the matter is that over gassed guns with light buffers and 5.56 ammo can actually cause the bolt to move so fast that the magazine cannot keep up with with feeding ammo and you get an empty chamber.

    C4
    No chance...

    Over gassed? How far over gassed? This term is used way to frequently to explain the unexplained. As it is the truth of the matter, you should be able to easily induce the stoppage in a carbine simply by enlarging the gas port. At what size could I expect to see the stoppage manifest itself?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The truth of the matter is that over gassed guns with light buffers and 5.56 ammo can actually cause the bolt to move so fast that the magazine cannot keep up with with feeding ammo and you get an empty chamber.C4
    I can understand the carrier moving to the rear faster in an overgassed gun but, isn't it the spring and the mass of the buffer that drive it forward.

    Or, is it how far the carrier is driven to the rear, thereby how much the spring is compressed that would actually determine how fast the carrier moves forward? Does the actual amount of initial gas really play a part in how fast the carrier moves forward in this instance? As in overrunning a mag.
    Last edited by Scoby; 01-29-12 at 22:24.
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

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