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Thread: All this talk about buffers (confused)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonconsiglio View Post
    I did. Then I realized I slipped and let the cat out of the bag, so I had to quickly edit it!

    You aren't familiar with the standard Eelam rifles??
    No, but I expect an invitation to the debut.
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    You asked if I tinker, I was answering the broader question... No, I don't mindless tinker with my guns because I read about it on the internet. I go and shoot. I establish deficiencies in the firearm, eliminate my personal performance as a cause, and attempt to rectify the situation. Typically what happens is I have perfectly good gear but my skillset improves to the point that I an overrun the headlights of the equipment I have and need new equipment.

    Which is the large part of the problem with threads like this. Take the OP, who probably has a PERFECTLY FUNCTIONAL FIREARM, and now because he read about a bunch of guys on the internut changing out parts he thinks he might somehow be deficient.

    It has gotten completely out of hand with people fiddle-****ing with ports, springs, buffers, triggers, etc. only to shoot 200 rounds a year. I guess it's nice to have a 10 second car sitting in the garage but if you ("you" in the general sense, not you in particular) never drive it who cares?

    For the sake of the newbies, these things should be made more clear in the various fiddle-**** threads. The time and effort is MUCH better spent in ammo. Buy a quality gun so you don't have to worry about it and go shoot. For the sake of these guys, if you're fiddle-****ing just say so, if you're trying to correct a true, known, observed issue discovered while actually shooting, explain what that is. But the softest shooting gun isn't going to help anyone if they stand bolt upright with a chicken-wing sticking out to the side.

    Actually, in this assumption you are incorrect. I posed the question to stimulate educated or experienced responses... as well as to see where the discussion would lead.

    I do not feel that my rifles require any of the do dads and cup holders so in fashion.

    However, please continue because this has been an excellent thread with good knowledgeable responses.

  3. #43
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    Yup

    Quote Originally Posted by C4IGrant View Post
    The term "function" means different things to different people. Some mis-informed people would tell you that an over gassed AR (DPMS/RRA/BM/Oly/Etc) with a Car buffer is a good idea because it will shoot all types of ammo (AKA crap, under pressured ammo).

    The truth of the matter is that over gassed guns with light buffers and 5.56 ammo can actually cause the bolt to move so fast that the magazine cannot keep up with with feeding ammo and you get an empty chamber.

    On top of the above, you will receive more felt recoil which means slower follow up shots.

    Now if you have a gun with a correct GP size (Colt, BCM, DD, Noveske, etc), the need to go above say an H buffer is minimal (unless you are running a suppressor).


    So first, look at your gun and figure out if it is over gassed or not (if you do not know, ask someone on the forum). Once that is figured out, choose a buffer that will best improve the reliability of your gun.



    C4

    I fully agree understand and accept this.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    I can understand the carrier moving to the rear faster in an overgassed gun but, isn't it the spring and the mass of the buffer that drive it forward.

    Or, is it how far the carrier is driven to the rear, thereby how much the spring is compressed that would actually determine how fast the carrier moves forward? Does the actual amount of initial gas really play a part in how fast the carrier moves forward in this instance? As in overrunning a mag.

    After a lengthly conversation with Bill Alexander at a prior SHOT show one thing which was explicitly clear was the need for the buffer to bottom out during the cycle and allow ammuntiion the time necessary to come up in the magazine. When the carriers motion is stopped for that brief moment before the spring begins to move the carrier forward... good things happen for reliability.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK18Pilot View Post
    No chance...

    Over gassed? How far over gassed? This term is used way to frequently to explain the unexplained. As it is the truth of the matter, you should be able to easily induce the stoppage in a carbine simply by enlarging the gas port. At what size could I expect to see the stoppage manifest itself?
    WAAAY over gassed + car buffer + buffer springs that are under the minimum required length (which seems to be more and more normal these days with cheap AR's).
    The mags also tend to be on the older side so the springs don't have enough ass in them.


    C4

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    I can understand the carrier moving to the rear faster in an overgassed gun but, isn't it the spring and the mass of the buffer that drive it forward.

    Or, is it how far the carrier is driven to the rear, thereby how much the spring is compressed that would actually determine how fast the carrier moves forward? Does the actual amount of initial gas really play a part in how fast the carrier moves forward in this instance? As in overrunning a mag.
    The BCG is moving very fast.

    For the record, I have seen some carbine gas ports in the .084 range (on a 16" gun).


    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 01-30-12 at 10:33.

  7. #47
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    Grant

    Does the buffer actually bottom out in the cycle?
    If so, should this be the case regardless of the buffer weight and spring?

    Don't I remember a recent thread in which the end of the buffer was mushroomed due to it hitting the rear of the receiver extension with such force to cause the gas key on the BCG to "stake" the RE to the lower?
    Scoby


    “Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”Thomas Jefferson, quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria in “On Crimes and Punishment”, 1764

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    Grant

    Does the buffer actually bottom out in the cycle?
    If so, should this be the case regardless of the buffer weight and spring?

    Don't I remember a recent thread in which the end of the buffer was mushroomed due to it hitting the rear of the receiver extension with such force to cause the gas key on the BCG to "stake" the RE to the lower?
    Bottoming out depends on lots of things. Caliber, type of spring (new, old, etc). So I guess you could say that it is ok in some circumstances (with certain calibers), but not with othes.

    Yes, that was a pic MK18P showed of a 416 on a Colt lower.



    C4
    Last edited by C4IGrant; 01-30-12 at 11:14.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoby View Post
    I can understand the carrier moving to the rear faster in an overgassed gun but, isn't it the spring and the mass of the buffer that drive it forward.

    Or, is it how far the carrier is driven to the rear, thereby how much the spring is compressed that would actually determine how fast the carrier moves forward? Does the actual amount of initial gas really play a part in how fast the carrier moves forward in this instance? As in overrunning a mag.
    I have no idea, but I know if you run a light buffer on a suppressed gun you can get the issues grant is talking about (personal experience)
    Last edited by Eurodriver; 01-30-12 at 11:42.
    Why do the loudest do the least?

  10. #50
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    Just some food for thought. If there existed only 1 buffer weight wouldn't the logical choice be to have a multi-setting gas regulator, something like a switchblock perhaps. Wouldn't that achieve the same result as messing with the buffer weight? I know adjustable gas blocks exist but are considered too unreliable for a work gun.
    Last edited by vicious_cb; 01-30-12 at 12:00.

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