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Thread: Mid-Length gas system "More reliable" than Carbine Length gas system?!?!

  1. #11
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    I may be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but in a SEMI auto the only diff I can see is a softer recoil in a middy.
    If I'm not mistaken, one of the issues with some of the carbine length gas systems is trying to extract the brass from the chamber too soon ???

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by boltcatch View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, one of the issues with some of the carbine length gas systems is trying to extract the brass from the chamber too soon ???
    I aways pick up all my brass and I have yet to see any signs if pushed primers or bulged case's on my 5 carbines. if they were ejected prematurely the spent brass would show signs of it wouldn't they .
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    Quote Originally Posted by GONIF View Post
    I aways pick up all my brass and I have yet to see any signs if pushed primers or bulged case's on my 5 carbines. if they were ejected prematurely the spent brass would show signs of it wouldn't they .
    It doesn't open the bolt early enough to cause bulged brass but does open early enough that it makes extraction much harder, thus stronger extractor spring and or enhancers are often needed.

    Your 5 carbines are not a statistical study.

    Colt and Crane really did know what they were doing when they started using heavier buffers in M4s and beefing up the extractor springs etc.
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  4. #14
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    so since I have ether H buffers or the carbine buffers and all my rifles have the heavy extractor and the M16 bcg how is this a problem ? not trying to be a ball buster ,but in semi auto I just don't see a problem with a carbine gas system.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GONIF View Post
    so since I have ether H buffers or the carbine buffers and all my rifles have the heavy extractor and the M16 bcg how is this a problem ? not trying to be a ball buster ,but in semi auto I just don't see a problem with a carbine gas system.
    I believe the argument is that you'll need to replace parts more frequently on the Carbine gas setup, than on a mid-length gas setup.

    To me, that means less money I have to keep spending on parts.
    To someone in a SHTF scenario, that's longer your supply of spare parts may last.
    To someone running a gun hard in a tour of duty, that's that much more piece of mind they'll have, and less fret over PM.

    The next question is, what's the problem with the mid-length system? (other than popularity and availability of parts)

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GONIF View Post
    so since I have ether H buffers or the carbine buffers and all my rifles have the heavy extractor and the M16 bcg how is this a problem ? not trying to be a ball buster ,but in semi auto I just don't see a problem with a carbine gas system.
    It may not be a problem for you if you don't shoot your guns hard (or at all). If you're shooting a high number of rounds in a short amount of time, it may become a problem.

    Even with the 'fixes' to help them the CAR system are still going to have shorter bolt life and other parts are going to wear faster, the CAR system is going to recoil harder. You can't take a 20" rifle that runs at 13.5K psi cut 5.5" off the barrel and shorten the gas system from 12" to 7" thus taking the gas pressure to 26K psi and not expect consequences (physics doesn't work like that). With all the fixes the CAR is still running 26K psi almost twice as much gas pressure. I don't know what bolt life expectancy is in a 20" gun (they almost never break) I'm sure 99% of them (Colt/FNs) go beyond 20K rounds and just get changed when the barrels worn out. You can count on it being half that in a CAR system. The .mil/.gov guys I know who are pushing M4s and short guns really hard break bolts before the barrels are worn out (many times 2 bolts to 1 bbl or more).

    It's just like shooting +P in a handgun sure it can handle it but it will wear it out in a shorter amount of rounds. Everything mechanical has a duty cycle/life, CAR systems will have have shorter ones than rifle length or midlength gas systems the only thing worse than CAR is a pistol length gas system.

    The only downfall to a midlength gas system I see is that it you really can't make short SBRs with it. About 13.6"-13.7" is the limit. But then again those that run SBRs hard know that they require a lot of maintenance so a CAR gas system in this instance is okay, but a piston system is a short gun is much better.
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  7. #17
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    Does anyone know how much gas gets vented back to the carrier between the two systems. Even though the port sees the 26K psi, surely the gas that goes back to the carrier is a fraction of that. Anyone how much a rifle length length sends back vs a carbine system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmart View Post
    Does anyone know how much gas gets vented back to the carrier between the two systems. Even though the port sees the 26K psi, surely the gas that goes back to the carrier is a fraction of that. Anyone how much a rifle length length sends back vs a carbine system?
    IIRC the rifle length gas systems NEEDS 20% of the volume of available gas that's pushing the bullet in order to cycle the carrier. Just guesstimating but the CAR at least needs just as much but probably gets more.
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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GONIF View Post
    I may be wrong (wouldn't be the first time) but in a SEMI auto the only diff I can see is a softer recoil in a middy.

    The gun cycles the same whether in semi or full auto.
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  10. #20
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    Is a FA BCG any benefit in a middy, if only used for SA fire?

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