Why assisted openers and autos are a nogo for personal protection

[mercop]

Here is the funny thing about it. Whether using the pommel of a fixed blade or a closed folder, one hammer fist between the eyes will be more of a fight stopper than one stab. We are talking electrical vs plumbing.

We teach drawing a folder in the following order-

Located knife in pocket
Draw the folder closed
Hammer fist the closed folder into your thigh (this built in step keeps you from dropping the knife)
If you do not have time and space to open the blade or it is no longer a deadly force situation hammer fist with it
If needed open into the inverted grip and as your attacker comes towards you just pull back (setting the hook) and repeat as needed.

The nice thing about a folder is that it gives you the option of less lethal by palming it closed. If you deploy a fixed blade you are committed to using the blade.- George

[pmarc]

I dumped all the traditional stuff because it did not blend well as being part of a system that involved carrying pistol. What I teach for gun guys who want to know how to use a knife to cut an attacker off them and work to their pistol is Inverted Edge Tactics.

I am curious IRT IET. I would like to know more.
Since we are in different continents, would you care to explain a bit more? PM/email are fine.

Depending on you location, I might take a class next time I go to the US (probably next year).

Nice vid, BTW.

Not a fan of double edged blades. They are prohibited many places so just carrying it can put you on the wrong side of the law. And carrying something they are not supposed to will make a good guy hesitate.- George

No such laws here. All blades/batons are legal.

[mercop]

Ask any questions you have. If you can carry anything then I would carry a sap. I prefer those from D3 Protection. Much better show stopper than a blade and much cleaner (sucks to have someone else's blood on you)- George

[Denali]

Seems like a short-sighted view for autos (knives)...because the same could be said for all modern firearms--because they operate using springs...

Touche...

[mercop]

OK, then carry an auto, good luck finding a trainer though

[pmarc]

Ask any questions you have. If you can carry anything then I would carry a sap. I prefer those from D3 Protection. Much better show stopper than a blade and much cleaner (sucks to have someone else's blood on you)- George

Thanks George. I did not know a sap. As an impact weapon, I think I might have an idea on how to use it though.

I am most curious as how you came to the IET. Since I already train Kali, the edge down is usual for me. I would venture a guess that you have some background in Silat or something else not Filipino.

[mercop]

Lots of people thinks so, but I have actually only dabbled in a bunch of different stuff. My core art is Yoshin Ryu Ju Jitsu and I worked a lot doing Tanto Jitsu (Art of the Knife) but quickly realized it did not have shit to do with my application (street cop at the time).

I am addicted to studying human psychology, anatomy, and physiology. We really need to understand our operating system before we start trying to load programs on it.

Here is my rational and the history of IET.

I really love weapons, all weapons, especially edged weapons. At one time in my career I had to write a goal and I chose to become a subject matter expert in edged weapons. The actually bought it and sent me to train with some very well known trainers. I wanted to learn three basic things-

How to defend against the most likely and probable attacks
Learn to use a knife as a back up weapon to my pistol
Learn to use a knife as a stand alone deadly force option

Much of what I found in classes and other research was knife dancing based on cultural martial arts and military tactics.

The first thing I figured out was that most people attending these classes because of lifestyle had very little likelihood of ever needing this stuff. For me on the other hand I might have needed it the next time I worked. For many of them it was a hobby, a valuable distraction. I was looking for a skill set that would blend with my other skill sets- open hand combatives, impact weapons, and the pistol. I felt strung along and not getting the basics. Some people say it takes time. IMHO the basics should not take that much time, if they are based off of human response.

At no time during any of these classes did I ever see anyone have to defend against a weapon they could not see open handed during a spontaneous attack. This is why I developed Spontaneous Attack Survival. That is the defensive part of my Edged Weapons program.

Around 2005 I started teaching for money. I was doing small classes all over the place. Many of the people attending were people I had met training with other instructors. More or less I was teaching OPS (other peoples shit), stuff that I had picked up along the way from other people. Then I came up with a drill that changed everything, the Folder Into the Fight Drill. I put a ton of people with a very wide range of training and experience in it, from novices to those who were instructors under other people. Here is the drill-

Station 1 - good guy wearing head gear with a training folder in his pocket grabs the ends of two escrima sticks held onto by another person and goes back and fourth with them for two minutes. This gets the heart rate up. When there is 20 seconds left a bad guy wearing boxing gloves starts tagging the good guy in the head/face/body. Before hand the good guys tells the bad guy how hard to hit him on a scale of 1-10.

Station 2- on the whistle the good guy drops the sticks and tries defend himself against the punches of the bad guy to the point where he can deploy his knife and get a cut or a stab in.

Before hand almost everyone would tell you that they would stab in a fight. Here is what we found-

When you are getting the shit beat out of you and being pushed back it is very hard to bring your hands down to draw your knife. It is even harder to do if your knife is carried between your pocket seams to the rear. Every once in a while the BG would get stabbed, but I would say a good 80% of the time the cuts were slashes across the chest and outer arms of the BG. This seemed to be regardless of the good guys training. Most just had not trained to use their knife against someone bashing their head in.

The more people got stressed out the wilder the slashes were, lots of movement outside the silhouette of the BG. The blade would take the path of least resistance off the sides of the attacker, in real life most likely filleting his arms and chest.

For a few years I tried to get people to do better under stress, but even with fixed blades they slashed wildly.

In 2007 I was at a range helping out with a pistol course and I had a Spyderco Endura trainer in my hand and started playing with it. I thumbed the blade open with the blade up and wrapped my hand around it and it just hit me, IET was born.

When a knife is in the inverted grip it only allows for once cyclic cutting angle. Like you are cutting a rope. You are 30% stronger pulling towards you than pushing away. When the blade comes under your attack it "catches" between their legs and under their arms. When they feel the pain the pull away creating a scissor effect. The things that protect the vital areas from head to toe are exposed from foot to head. Even if you cannot see for some reason, you just set the hook, pull and repeat.

So we started doing the folder into the fight twice. Once with people using any grip they wanted, and then with IET after being trained. The cuts were always to the brachial, femoral, or cardioid arteries.

IET is not about knife fighting, it is about cutting a bad guy off of you. I can hand a training knife to my wife or 12 year old and attack them. Couple their defensive response with a knife in their hand cuts the shit out of me every time.- George

[Denali]

OK, then carry an auto, good luck finding a trainer though

I'm open to your opinion, I'd never depend on a folding knife for defense, however I would present an OTF such as one of these Microtechs. I wouldn't take them into a combat zone, but for self defense on city streets, they are as good as any folding knife you're likely to rely upon.

Lock-up is rock solid, they may well not fire again, but remain locked open they will! Also, if they do fail, they will not take my fingers with them, I'll still have an impact weapon, particularly the glass breaker/scull crusher...

[Spade]

This whole thread has been a very interesting read. Thank you to everyone for your views. Tagging this for reference.

[d90king]

Any opinion on serrations? I carry the fully serrated Delica (blade size limitations)...a little less practical for EDC use but seems to bite better in denim and leather in informal tests.

Generally bad juju on defensive blades. They get caught on bone, clothes, tendons etc...

My carry blade and trainer. Looking forward to working with Kyle and Tom Kier in June.

Tracker Dan Bloodshark