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Thread: firing pin designs... why the change?

  1. #21
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    For what it's worth, I was trained in the military to use the firing pin as a punch to remove the extractor pin. Now, this shouldn't require anything more than a gental push to get the pin out or just the last bit in. If you are using it for more than this than yes, the pin will most likely be damaged. I have done it this way for years and see no damage to the firing pin. I think some are more zealous about doing it than I if they are damaging their pins in the process.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by E-man930 View Post
    Gents,

    I have been curious about this for a while, perhaps someone can enlighten me as to why the original Stoner designed firing was redesigned... Specifically, the end of the pin that is hit by the hammer changed from a cone shape to a rounded knob shape. Finally, why did H&K decide to utilize the earlier cone shaped design?

    Examples:

    http://black-market-parts.3dcartstor...-44_p_293.html

    vs.

    http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=1...000005_d_10859

    I have been thinking about ordering a few of the earlier style pins to compare and test in my SBR - what say ye?
    how is that even legit? did they purchase the patent for those parts? i mean i see HK416 uppers that are identicle in all things but markings

  3. #23
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    It was to remove mass and lessen the slam-fire risk.
    My brother saw Deliverance and bought a Bow. I saw Deliverance and bought an AR-15.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by devinsdad View Post
    For what it's worth, I was trained in the military to use the firing pin as a punch to remove the extractor pin. Now, this shouldn't require anything more than a gental push to get the pin out or just the last bit in. If you are using it for more than this than yes, the pin will most likely be damaged. I have done it this way for years and see no damage to the firing pin. I think some are more zealous about doing it than I if they are damaging their pins in the process.
    Use the firing pin retaining pin instead. It's long enough to push the pin completely out of the bolt and less likely to be damaged.

  5. #25
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    Since most or all of the answers thus far have been speculation I'll jump in with my own.

    If you compare the conical and rounded firing pins with regards the way they interact with the hammer you can see a possible reason for the change. As the hammer swings through its arc it will impact the conical pin on the sharp edge on the top (end)of the cone. Since both the hammer and the pin are hardened, sooner or later something is going to round over or chip off the pin or an indention will develop on the hammer face. Like a chisel that gets hit by a hammer many times over.

    If the pin chips, you then have metallic debris (however small it may be) floating around in you lower waiting for Mr. Murphy to tell it when to jam things up. If the hammer face becomes indented it could provide a "catch edge" that could snag on the firing pin and slow the hammer enough to cause light strikes.

    If you round the end of the pin most ,if not all, of those potential problems go away.

    Granted that with the firing pin being free floating this could take a long time to manifest itself. In all honesty it may never manifest in a semi auto only weapon. However in light of the fact that these were designed as weapons of war with lives at stake, it's better to be safe than sorry.

    Feel free to argue the logic if you see any flaws.

    EDUB
    When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty. Thomas Jefferson


  6. #26
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    Heavy Metal & EW1066,
    thanks for the insight, I appreciate the on topic reply and the fact that neither of you fell into the "let me shit in this thread with bull shit talk of shit that has nothing to do with this thread" category.

    I see the logic in lightning the pin and changing the angles so close to the hammer strike face to avoid possible fracture or eventual failure. What still baffles me is why H&K chose to keep the design for it's 416 series rifles...

  7. #27
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    I would think that if there were serious deficiencies in the design of the AR-15 firing pin, we would have seen a new design decades ago. All you have to do is look at the problems associated with the BAD lever to see how even a simple idea can sometimes cause problems. I see no reason to try a new firing pin design when the old one is working so well.

  8. #28
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    OK, the reason why HK made the firing pin that shape it is? First, let's back up a step.

    Having decided to make a "better" AR, the full Germanic engineering mindset kicks in.

    Even doing something as simple as making their own AR upper, they (in all likelihood) considered every surface, every angle, every radius, and every alloy, heat-treatment and surface finish. I would not be the least bit surprised to find honest-to-god computer mainframe time devoted to cycling simulations.

    In the end, they made a rifle that was heavier, with stronger springs, and the extra feeding/chambering forces required a firing pin lock to control slam-fire possibilities. "Is there a chance of one slam-fire in ten million chambered rounds? Yes, then we put in a firing pin safety."

    They made the firing pin the shape it is, for what seemed to to them to be good engineering reasons. Can we ever know those reasons? Nope. Unless you find the HK engineer involved, shoot him up with truth serum, and threaten to key his beemer if he doesn't talk, we won't know. And even then, he'll probably give a decoy answer.

    It is what it is, accept it and move on.

    As for the other firing pin, if it was made to go into a standard carrier, and not need a FP safety, then it will in all likelihood work just fine. Knock yourself out.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrick sweeney View Post
    OK, the reason why HK made the firing pin that shape it is? First, let's back up a step.

    Having decided to make a "better" AR, the full Germanic engineering mindset kicks in.

    Even doing something as simple as making their own AR upper, they (in all likelihood) considered every surface, every angle, every radius, and every alloy, heat-treatment and surface finish. I would not be the least bit surprised to find honest-to-god computer mainframe time devoted to cycling simulations.

    In the end, they made a rifle that was heavier, with stronger springs, and the extra feeding/chambering forces required a firing pin lock to control slam-fire possibilities. "Is there a chance of one slam-fire in ten million chambered rounds? Yes, then we put in a firing pin safety."

    They made the firing pin the shape it is, for what seemed to to them to be good engineering reasons. Can we ever know those reasons? Nope. Unless you find the HK engineer involved, shoot him up with truth serum, and threaten to key his beemer if he doesn't talk, we won't know. And even then, he'll probably give a decoy answer.

    It is what it is, accept it and move on.

    LOL, you nailed it! I work for a German manufacturing company and deal with this mentality almost daily. Rest assured, someone at H&K had their reason for changing the FP shape. This reason is likely well-documented, but this documentation may never see the light of day...

  10. #30
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    Zee Germanz... Zey alwayz sink zey ar rrrite.

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