Ak 47 vs. Ak 74 Which? and Why?

[DeltaSierra]

One more thing you might want to take into consideration is the mag issue. 74 mags are harder to come by than 47 mags. Not too many suppliers seem to have them right now and prices have been going up. A year ago, poly mags were ~13-15 bucks. Now they are hard to find for less than 20 and there is a very limited selection.

K-Var keeps a pretty good supply of Bulgarian Circle 10 magazines for the 5.45 rifles.

If you get into the 5.45 rifles, you just have to accept that to save money on ammo, you will pay a bit more for the mags....

[morbidbattlecry]

If your going to go with the 7.62, aim has a pretty awesome deal on "Surplus European" mags for 10 dollers a pop. They are really nice steel mags and have no rib in the back.

[Moose-Knuckle]

K-Var keeps a pretty good supply of Bulgarian Circle 10 magazines for the 5.45 rifles.

Currently they only OD Green and 45 rounders in stock.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/home.php?cat=418

Bakelites are getting harder to come by and so are the Black "circle 10"s.

Of course one can still find the Polish Tantal steel '74 mags from time to time on various sites.

[Rdog1]

Yup. Just wanting to point out that the mag thing is definitely something to think about beforehand. I typically like to have 10 - 15 mags per firearm. When you can get ~10 dollar steel mags all day long for the 47, and mags range from 20-40 for the 74 right now, the difference is substantial. And right now, I mean if you wanted to buy mags for your 74 online today, you are stuck with OD green from Kvar, a few places with the somewhat less desirable poly polish or steel mags (~17-25), overpriced russian plum (22-30) and east german bakelite (30-40). Or you troll the marketplace everyday and hope to get lucky! The bulgarian mags, which most believe are the best, are very hard to find right now except in the forum for sale ads. And people have been pouncing on those as soon as they come up.

I am not trying to push the op towards the 47 (I just got a 74 the other week and have been slowly amassing my mag stash for a few months), just it is slim pickings right now and prices never seem to go down, even if more supply makes it into the market.

[CumbiaDude]

The weight difference between 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 mags isn't as huge as people like to think. Basing on the weights of AR mags, the difference would be about only 2 pounds for 210 rounds.

Izhmash plum 5.45 loaded 513 g/18.1 oz.
steel (various) 7.62 loaded 830-848 g/28-29.91 oz.

Seven loaded 30rd plum magazines weigh 3.591 kg/7.917 lbs
Seven loaded 30rd steel magazines weigh 5.880 kg/12.96 lbs

So about 8lbs and 13 lbs. More like 5 lbs difference

eta: My lightest 30rd 7.62 mags weigh 798 g/28.15 oz loaded, which makes it 5.586 kg/12.32 lbs - That's only 4.4 lbs more for 7.62

[train of abuses]

From a ballistics point of view, I have seen Gary Roberts post that the 7.62 x 39 is superior to the 5.45 round.

[CumbiaDude]

From a ballistics point of view, I have seen Gary Roberts post that the 7.62 x 39 is superior to the 5.45 round.

Depends on what's meant by "ballistics". 5.45 is flatter shooting and easier to get a hit on with extended range or wind. If you mean terminal ballistics, the 7N6 5.45 round tumbles much better than the M43 7.62 round, but the M67 7.62 round tumbles about the same and leaves a bigger hole. 5.45 ricochets around in buildings where 7.62 doesn't. Neither one fragments unless you use commercial ammo.

Link to stickied post

[train of abuses]

http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?...highlight=ak47

I was thinking of his response on this thread when asked, "Which one would be the more practical gun for range, home, and SHTF?"

His response was:

"AK47 in 7.62x39mm."

But I see what you are saying with the other data and the variables involved with comparing FMJ to FMJ types, longer range vs better penetration up close, etc.

[BullittBoy]

Whatever caliber you decide on please stay away from all these "cobbled" together parts guns and buy an Arsenal.
The only thing that sucks about the Arsenal is the painted on finish is not going to stand up to much and will come off if you use any aerosol cleaners. The newer guns are mostly Russian (barrel, receiver, and bolt group) and will hold its value better than any of the others out there now.
The 5.45 is way more fun to shoot, and can be shot with ease by women and children. If you have a family this is what I would recommend. The 7.62 after about 100-150 rounds may start to shove around some smaller folks or recoil sensitive folks. They both have cheap ammo in non-corrosive and the 5.45 wins if you don't mind corrosive.
The 5.45 without a doubt (and I have owned and shot about 7 of them from Romanian, Bulgarian, and Russian flavors) will outshoot a 7.62 gun at 100 yards. I have shot Chinese, Bulgarian, Romanian, and Russian 7.62's and compared to the 5.45's using same mil-spec Wolf, Uly, or Barnaul (brown and silver Bears) the 5.45 is a more intrinsically accurate round, so if this means anything to you think about it.
The 7.62 will kill stuff dead and will always have cheap mags, this is an advantage for it.
I have made AK fans with two 5.45's -an Arsenal SLR105R and a SGL-31, they both are more accurate than they have any right to be as an AK is concerned. The Bulgarian SLR105 actually has an awesome trigger and a US length stock, it is a great AK and one of the most accurate Kalashnikov weapons I have shot-it will put 20 rounds into a 2" square at 50 yards and 10 rounds into about 2-2.5" at 100.
I have shot 5 shot groups of 1.25" at 100, with Wolf 70 grain and open sights, back when I was a couple years younger and had less kids

[wideglide]

Well you asked for opinions.... I think the lack of punch the 5.45 is concerning to me compared to a 7.62. If I want a 22 caliber and superior accuracy I use my AR which is already on the lower end regarding rifle type power but still better than the 5.45 in every way. I also believe at least a little bit of the famous AK reliability comes from the shape of the 7.62..some people may think I'm full of it for saying that. I also think that the advantage of a flatter shooting 5.45 is not an advantage for me because I don't expect to ever shoot more than a 100-150 maybe 200 yards for any tactical reason or situation, and the 7.62 does just fine in those distances. The actual reality is more like 5-75 being that is the size of my yard.

You don't have to buy into the Arsenal is the only way though, there are some great builders out there. The Arsenal is a great rifle and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one, but not the only choice. I would not give Red Jacket any of my money due to so many problems lately and frankly they don't deserve it, but I have heard good things about Waffen works.
Opinions are just that, so there ya go.