Is ACOG the way to go?

[Just a Jarhead]

You guys keep fighting this but one day you're gonna come around to my world and not have to have this silly argument anymore and enjoy the best of both worlds.
http://m4carbine.net/attachment.php?...3&d=1304370718

I can hit targets from unconventional positions out to 50 yards using the the back up irons on the ACOG all day long if need be. You just gotta practice.

http://m4carbine.net/attachment.php?...8&d=1304983257

[rob_s]

I have time on the TA33, Aimpoint T1, Swarovski Z6i, Trijicon TR24 and the Meopta and have tested them for speed at CQB range. For speed the low power variables beat the TA33 at least for me. Of course 1x beats 3x at close range is not earth shattering. A lot of it is what you get used to training with. I do know some shooters who run an ACOG well enough to stay competative in three gun. But most run a low power variable and that is a game where speed counts.
Pat

It may well be that it's simply a matter of familiarity for me. I also don't see a lot of folks running the front cover trick, most often because the TA33 is the only one that lends itself to the solution without more add-on parts like a killflash. Without that trick the learning curve for me was always very steep whenever I would put down the TA33 for awhile and then come back to it.

Fans of the 1.x-Y keep telling me they can be just as fast up close, but I'm not seeing it in my own use and am rather unwilling to spend the $2k+ that is evidently needed to get there, plus accept the bulkier and heavier optic. I may get my chance to play for free as I'm supposed to be on the list to get a Z6i and one of the new Leupold 1.x-6 T&E loaners, but who knows when either will break loose.

[strike1943]

I can see there is quite a debate over this! All the info you guys are giving me is awesome, just trying to learn whats out there and what everyone prefers. I'm more comfortable shoot distance, seems to be my strong point but i am looking into gaining more experience with close range and then determine what kind of shooter i want it be. I am leaning towards trying out an optic that i am not familiar with to get the experience with other options. Im hear to learn and better myself. Thanks again for your help guys and keep the knowledge coming!

[cop1211]

Here's a soultion get one rifle with an ACOG, and then get an SBR with a different optic

[MFWIC2]

Have you tried a Eotech XPS with a FTS Gen.II 3x Magnifier?

I have a TA50 mounted on my carry handle of my SBR. And a TA31F w/RMR on my BCM 20".
They are both great optics.
I have a Eotech XPS3-0 on Draco SBR and it is also a great optic.
Thinking of adding a Eotech 3x Gen. II with FTS mount.

If you have buddies that have one try there's out and go from there.

[strike1943]

Have you tried a Eotech XPS with a FTS Gen.II 3x Magnifier?

I have a TA50 mounted on my carry handle of my SBR. And a TA31F w/RMR on my BCM 20".
They are both great optics.
I have a Eotech XPS3-0 on Draco SBR and it is also a great optic.
Thinking of adding a Eotech 3x Gen. II with FTS mount.

If you have buddies that have one try there's out and go from there.

No i haven't tried that yet. Im really interested in that set up and im going to try to get some hands on first before I commit right now. Whatever I end up getting ill be sure to post what it is on here and what I think of it.

[rob_s]

I can see there is quite a debate over this! All the info you guys are giving me is awesome, just trying to learn whats out there and what everyone prefers. I'm more comfortable shoot distance, seems to be my strong point but i am looking into gaining more experience with close range and then determine what kind of shooter i want it be. I am leaning towards trying out an optic that i am not familiar with to get the experience with other options. Im hear to learn and better myself. Thanks again for your help guys and keep the knowledge coming!

I would suggest figuring out what you want to do with the gun, and then using that to determine "what kind of shooter" you want to be. Precision shooting, 3-gun, benchrest, home defense... let the application guide the skillset and the gear, not the other way around.

[Failure2Stop]

I think that a big problem that comes about when talking about "speed up close" is that there isn't a solid metric.

So I think that when discussing "speed" there should be some kind of standardization. Everyone should be tracking this anyway. If you don't use a shot timer to dissect your performance and are only working off of what "feels" fast, you are lacking the tools to accurately gauge performance, and really have no weight when discussing performance.

So here is what I recommend:
5 yards. 3x5 card. Average time for 10 hits from the alert/low ready.
5 yards. 5x8 card. 10 shot string (final stage of the VTac Half and Half Drill). Time to first shot from low alert, with all 10 shots contained in the card.

[rob_s]

I think that a big problem that comes about when talking about "speed up close" is that there isn't a solid metric.

So I think that when discussing "speed" there should be some kind of standardization. Everyone should be tracking this anyway. If you don't use a shot timer to dissect your performance and are only working off of what "feels" fast, you are lacking the tools to accurately gauge performance, and really have no weight when discussing performance.

So here is what I recommend:
5 yards. 3x5 card. Average time for 10 hits from the alert/low ready.
5 yards. 5x8 card. 10 shot string (final stage of the VTac Half and Half Drill). Time to first shot from low alert, with all 10 shots contained in the card.

I am hopeful that we'll get a chance to play with this concept this coming weekend.

One thing I've noticed is that a lot of guys will talk about their ability to shoot the 2x2x2 or the 1-5 just as fast on 1.x as with an RDS. I don't see this as a valuable measurement since you are only finding the reticule once, essentially (since you're not breaking cheekweld to lead with your eyes to the next target), and it's the finding the reticule that I find slows me down. Moving laterally past an array of targets, for example, is where I find the breakdown.

We're going to hopefully do the 9-hole from 25 yards. That requires you to find the reticule 9 times, at awkward angles, and from unconventional positions. The idea is that we'll have several optics zeroed for one gun and multiple shooters to run through it. Not sure if that'll materialize or not or if we'll have the time. we'll also do others, time permitting.

[Irishman]

I suppose it would matter the theater it would be used in, but very recently I was at my local shop and they had just set up a trijicon Tripower on a RRA, I thought it was pretty sweet.
http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/produc...hp?id=TriPower