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Thread: New Frontier/ Polymer lowers?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heavy Metal View Post
    I wonder how well the lower would take a lateral stress to the buffer tube like somebody using the rifle for a step-up?

    That is the critical area IMO. The reciever ring where the buffer tube mounts. They are limited here because they cannot simply add material due to charging handle clearance.

    Cav Arms got around this by integrating the buttstock.
    If you go to YouTube and find their video's, in the third one they have two guys hold either end of it holding it horizontal to the ground and a third guy uses it as a step to get into a pickup truck. It held and fired immediately after.


    No one is saying it can't be made of polymer. They are saying you can't take a part designed around one material and switch it with another. You would have to design said part with polymer or any other material at that from the beginning. Meaning it would be different specs, reinforced in different areas etc. Point is the lower being made with just another material and not designing and testing where it might fail with that material is the wrong answer. You can't say ohh this weapon uses this material and it works just fine, that is because they DESIGNED IT to be made with that material so it would work.
    Except that really doesn't hold true. You can always replace one material with another if it's equally as strong/tough/durable/equal in value. You could take an AR lower and build it out of steel or titanium couldn't you? That's replacing one material for another isnt' it? It would work wouldn't it?

    You're just assuming that because something is plastic that it can't be strong, but that's just not true anymore.
    Police work: If it were easy it would be called your mom.

  2. #22
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    I agree that one component can't always be swapped out for a different material without re-engineering and still be sufficiently strong. However, unless you use the rifle as a club it would be hard to stress the lower enough to cause any issue as indicated in the New Frontier testing videos.

    PMAG's seem to work well. The original AR15 mags were all aluminum?
    Owner-JoeBobOutfitters.com

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj5_dude View Post
    If you go to YouTube and find their video's, in the third one they have two guys hold either end of it holding it horizontal to the ground and a third guy uses it as a step to get into a pickup truck. It held and fired immediately after.




    Except that really doesn't hold true. You can always replace one material with another if it's equally as strong/tough/durable/equal in value. You could take an AR lower and build it out of steel or titanium couldn't you? That's replacing one material for another isnt' it? It would work wouldn't it?

    You're just assuming that because something is plastic that it can't be strong, but that's just not true anymore.

    Build it out of steel and see how heavy it is. It will be stronger than aluminum but heavier because it is a stronger metal. If they designed it around using steel it wouldn't be as heavy as just changing the material because they designed it using steel so they could cut down on areas that don't need as much steel. In the end it would probably look different and be just as strong and slightly heavier but if you just changed the material it would be a lot heavier and unnecessarly bulky.

    Case and point proven with the other poster saying pmags. Pmags are thicker than than the aluminum mags and reinforced in other areas. They didn't just replace material.

  4. #24
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    Endur, you stated that you can't take something designed for one material and make it out of another. I gave an example of using steel. Sure it would be heavier but it made your "fact" just not true.

    Why can't it be possible that an AR lower built out of polymer has as much strength as an aluminum lower? Aluminum isn't known as the strongest material in the world, it's pretty light duty as is. Keep in mind that while the lower is the "firearm" part of an AR that doesn't mean that it takes the most abuse. In fact, lowers take very little abuse.

    And don't discount the strength of polymers and synthetics. I trust my life every day I go to work on a synthetic material ballistic vest. It's not steel but it still stops bullets doesn't it? Synthetics and polymers aren't just the plastic in your kids toys anymore.
    Police work: If it were easy it would be called your mom.

  5. #25
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    Polymer can be a stronger material then aluminum or steel in certain cases http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=2307&page=109
    The question is not "is polymer a good material for a firearm?" the question is " is polymer durable enough for an AR15 lower?" Maybe, maybe not. Just because others have failed at polymer lower receivers certainly doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I think it is possible to make a good polymer lower, it just needs time and R&D. Polymer certainly does have advantages to aluminum in many cases. It will not corrode/rust,it's cheaper to fabricate,strength, and has self lubricating properties.
    Last edited by ermac; 02-24-12 at 14:55.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeboboutfitters View Post
    No offense, but are you familiar with New Frontier Armory? They're a pretty big gunshop in Vegas/online retailer as well as the manufacturer (they sub contract the injection molding, but do all assembly in-house) of these lowers so are pretty "stable". Their business model is quite a bit different than most AR "Manufacturers" these days. They're more along the lines of Palmetto State, rather than Plum Crazy.



    I'd bet I know what shop it was at . We've been moving hundreds out a week. You're more than welcome to come in and take a look at them sometime.
    Nice to see you over here JoeBob

    Why anybody who does anything more than look at their rifle is totally beyond me. Enjoy your plastic.
    Last edited by Tzook; 02-24-12 at 15:31.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by cj5_dude View Post
    Endur, you stated that you can't take something designed for one material and make it out of another. I gave an example of using steel. Sure it would be heavier but it made your "fact" just not true.

    Why can't it be possible that an AR lower built out of polymer has as much strength as an aluminum lower? Aluminum isn't known as the strongest material in the world, it's pretty light duty as is. Keep in mind that while the lower is the "firearm" part of an AR that doesn't mean that it takes the most abuse. In fact, lowers take very little abuse.

    And don't discount the strength of polymers and synthetics. I trust my life every day I go to work on a synthetic material ballistic vest. It's not steel but it still stops bullets doesn't it? Synthetics and polymers aren't just the plastic in your kids toys anymore.
    Obviously you are not getting the point. No one is arguing the strength of polymer. The point is you can't just make something that was designed with one specific material in mind and make it with another. You have to redesign it with the material you want to make out of from the get go. Again I reference pmags, glocks and now the scar. All designed before hand with polymer in mind. Not something remade with another material.
    Last edited by Endur; 02-24-12 at 15:50.

  8. #28
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    These guys are local to me, and they do have a nice store and are nice folks. I haven't tried their polymer lower, but do have a few of their roll-marked aluminum ones. I am still not sold on the polymer parts; and I am not sure that the weight savings are really worth it, might get one down the road but I am not in the market for a range toy/plinker.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endur View Post
    Obviously you are not getting the point. No one is arguing the strength of polymer. The point is you can't just make something that was designed with one specific material in mind and make it with another. You have to redesign it with the material you want to make out of from the get go. Again I reference pmags, glocks and now the scar. All designed before hand with polymer in mind. Not something remade with another material.
    Who's to say they didn't slightly redesign the AR lower to accommodate polymer? I don't know the specifics, but I imagine the geometry of the receiver is a bit different.

  10. #30
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    So you agree that polymer is strong, and perhaps even as strong or stronger than aluminum but you're not willing to admit that it's possible to build an AR lower out of polymer that is as 100% reliable and strong as an aluminum one?

    These are obviously working and surviving. Doing an internet search I found only 2 images of broken Plum Crazy lowers, one was likely due to operator error and the other may be a legitimate breakage. This is a different company than Plum Crazy and maybe better.

    I see no reason to not take a chance on something like this. They are inexpensive and could one day be a game changer with AR's. Just because someone calls it polymer doesn't mean it is weak. I think there's a great chance that one day there are very strong AR lowers made of polymer that are more durable than aluminum, and maybe that day is already here.

    Endur, I don't think anything will sway you, but to the OP and others keep your mind open that science is amazing and polymers may take over the world someday.
    Police work: If it were easy it would be called your mom.

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