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Thread: Downsides to a 12.5" Kino ?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    If you're going with a MOE just understand that MOE+Kino will weigh more than other options. A standard 12.5" upper with something like a TRX Extreme or Rainier, or other Brazilian(slick)-style handguard will weigh less, even after you mount back a rail-attached front sight.

    Understand that with the Kino you're getting a gas block, PLUS a full FSB in terms of the weight, and a MOE mounted also weighs more than most of the Brazilian FF handguards.
    I was curious so I got some numbers together... some charts I found around the internet for the handguard weights

    4.7oz F Marked FSB
    1-2oz for Aluminum or Steel low profile gas block (1.5 for estimation)
    1.125oz Average front sight (folding/fixed estimation)
    1.25oz RSA or swivel attachment

    12.4oz TRX Mid
    13.2oz Apex Mid
    16.8oz Apex Mid Kino
    19.0oz MOE Mid Kino

    A couple of notes... One... I hate the TRX rail. I don't have a specific reason, I just don't like it much. It's still better than quad rails imo, but maybe it's the attachment method or the feel in hand or the look. Not sure, I just don't like it.

    I put value on having a pinned FSB, but only to a point. For me to even need the FSB, my optic is going to need to be dead or missing. That said, I don't like the idea of mounting a fixed or folding sight to a modular top rail like the Apex has. Seems like to many failure points.

    Well...... ****.... Thanks a lot Rob! Now I'm back to square one... I need to see if the Apex parts are worth a damn. If they are, I guess I could

    1. Pay the 3oz penalty and go with the Apex mid extended Kino
    2. Do a traditional Apex 12.5" with lo pro and get a folding front sight

    Ugh.

  2. #12
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    haha, I'm going through the same machinations myself right now, so I get it.

    I know you don't like the quad rails (I've come back to a gun with a DD M4 on it recently and with the Larue index clips really like it) but you might think about a standard 12.5" barrel with an FSP cutout handguard. That way you're not adding the extra weight of the gas block (which is only ~1 oz. FYI) but you're still getting a fixed FSP.

    I've been thinking about ordering a Centurion 12.5" barreled upper with his 12.0 FSP rail on it. Since I care less and less every day about a can, I can't think of any real downsides to this.

    I'd like to see more Brazilian-style handguards with FSP options. I swear I had seen an Apex like that.. maybe it was a custom cutout on one of these.
    http://www.apexhandguard.com/store.p...=112348#images

  3. #13
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    Rob, Noodles, thanks for the info!

    I may still stick with the Kino/MOE setup despite the increased weight. This will be a no frills build and I will be running straight irons, FSP is a must for me. I like to get a far grip on the hand guard and I prefer carbine gas for reliability. That's why I'm leaning towards the Kino.

    Worst case scenario, I will swap the MOEs for something different I guess. They're not that expensive so I won't take much of a hit.

    Now BCM just needs to pick up the pace and churn more of these out haha!!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob_s View Post
    haha, I'm going through the same machinations myself right now, so I get it.

    I know you don't like the quad rails (I've come back to a gun with a DD M4 on it recently and with the Larue index clips really like it) but you might think about a standard 12.5" barrel with an FSP cutout handguard. That way you're not adding the extra weight of the gas block (which is only ~1 oz. FYI) but you're still getting a fixed FSP.

    I've been thinking about ordering a Centurion 12.5" barreled upper with his 12.0 FSP rail on it. Since I care less and less every day about a can, I can't think of any real downsides to this.

    I'd like to see more Brazilian-style handguards with FSP options. I swear I had seen an Apex like that.. maybe it was a custom cutout on one of these.
    http://www.apexhandguard.com/store.p...=112348#images
    1oz aluminum, 2oz steel DD. Doesn't really matter for those numbers as they all used 1.5. Could have left it out.

    I have some DD, and they're OK, it just that I really dislike the idea of buying an expensive rail that feels like shit in the hand without extra covers meaning extra cost and weight. I'd much rather a Brazilian

    I get what you're saying on the standard rail with cutout. I'm not sure, but I think the midlength rail for hand/grip space is worth more than the 1oz I'd save over the gas block. However, that setup would allow a LW barrel and still have a fixed fsp....

    Opposite, I more and more want the can on there.

    Rob, what do you think about the Apex with a fsp, or without and a folding or fixed rail sight instead?

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