Military Weapons Trial, only the Kalashnikov AK 103 finishes the torture tests.

[Arik]

You'll probably know it's going to be cold before you get to the fight. You'll have time to open the trigger guard on your M4.

..and the ergos on a Sig 550 are not as good as an M4. I can barely get ahold of the selector with my thumb on the 550 from a firing position. I have average sized hands. The 550 is much wider over the web of the hand, and the selector is higher. It's especially dramatic when you swap back and forth between the two and feel the difference. It much easier for me to move the selector on the Sig if I swing the barrel to my weak side, and put the stock on the outside of my strong side arm...much like an Hk rifle. The Sig safety is more like an Hk than an AR.

Well if we're now talking about hand sizes and why things suck then the AR is worse then the AK since I'm left handed. Absolutely everything is on the wrong side and ergos out the window

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[vicious_cb]

It's 2018 and you guys are arguing about a trigger guard are you guys fking serious?

Also in case the OP didn't mention it, the country in question is Pakistan. One of more inept and corrupt militaries in the world, so who gives a shit what rifle they find suitable, I'm glad those those Islamist sympathizers didn't choose an AR varient, they would just make the rifle look bad.

[Sooter76]

This is rank apologism.

An ultimak gasblock rail and the cantilever side mount are work arounds. They are not a continuous top rail. An ultimak does not allow you to adjust eye relief, and a side mount is a poor alternative for a precision optic (provided you can actually mount one and get eye relief for it) as compared to a solid top rail.

An AK can be adapted to modern optics and LAMs. An M4 is ready, out of the box.

Are you serious!? It's no more a work around than the picatinny rails found on modern military M4's. Neither platform was designed with them in mind but they were both adapted to it. The side rail for the AK works and has proven to be a repeatable zero. There are multiple options that provide rails for an AK from the muzzle to the end of the receiver, some of which actually lighten the rifle.

Saying the M4 is ready out of the box ignores all of the changes made to the original platform. And it ignores that you can also get an AK that has those same changes made to it 'out of the box'.

[Sooter76]

This whole thing is retarded. Each rifle has it's individual plus/negatives. But neither is that far apart as people make it seem to be ..... unless you're hung up on some insignificant thing.

This... It's been my experience that people hung up on a particular platform are generally civilians who have little if any real world experience with the platforms in question. When people invest their own money they lose sight of the weaknesses and over-emphasize the positives inherent to their chosen platform.

[Sooter76]

However, to say that the Kalashnikov is BETTER, because you can chuck it off an overpass, or bury it in gloop, or put a PB&J under the top cover, or that the M4 doesn’t work, is just ....silly. And I am not confident that this “trial” was conducted objectively and without bias.

I'm not sure anyone has said that... I've seen repeatedly that they both have their weaknesses and strengths, and I've said that taken as a whole it's pretty much a wash as to which is better, but I don't think anyone has claimed the Kalashnikov as the better rifle.

[RetroRevolver77]

Yup. Dude won the AK-74 division (Light Division - 5.56 or 5.45 AK with iron sights) at Red Oktober 2016 - with a laminate handguard, triangle folding-stocked SLR-104, while wearing KLMK, blue telnyashka, and blue Adidas - and took second in the shoot-off at the end of the end of the match. Obviously he isn't familiar with the AK.

I figured he'd do much worse than he did, figured maybe it was just his weapons familiarity.However not one of the modern rifles passed the extreme environmental tests other than the AK. Manufacturers are designing rifles based on ergonomics rather than trying to improve actual reliability which is where their focus should be.


7n6

[Five_Point_Five_Six]

This is rank apologism.

An ultimak gasblock rail and the cantilever side mount are work arounds. They are not a continuous top rail. An ultimak does not allow you to adjust eye relief, and a side mount is a poor alternative for a precision optic (provided you can actually mount one and get eye relief for it) as compared to a solid top rail.

An AK can be adapted to modern optics and LAMs. An M4 is ready, out of the box.

LOL. As someone who has several AR's and AK's, the difference in the two is not as wide spread as people like you pretend it to be. Lots of people running LPVOs and ACOGs on AK rifles. You can go on believing the difference in the two rifles is akin to a Model T and a Lamborghini, it only shows your lack of experience with the AK.

[RetroRevolver77]

The Pakistan military, along with several youtube personalities, conducted very similar over the beach/swamp tests and the results are the same. Previous extreme cold weather tests shows issues with the design as well. Now a military trial tests mirror results of what backyard testers are finding. Simply these tests may have exposed flaws that need correction especially in light that our enemies weapons pass those very same tests.


7n6

[SteyrAUG]

It's 2018 and you guys are arguing about a trigger guard are you guys fking serious?

Ergo Lives Matter. Apparently.

[eodinert]

Well if we're now talking about hand sizes and why things suck then the AR is worse then the AK since I'm left handed. Absolutely everything is on the wrong side and ergos out the window

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The AR is worse than what? An AK or a Sig550? Even left handed, it's easy to manipulate an AR, including the safety. It's easier to use a non-ambi AR left handed than an an AK right handed. You don't need an ambi bolt catch if there isn't a bolt catch. I'll loan you $20 for an ambi selector.

I'm six feet tall, and of average size. If I can't reach the safety on 550, most probably can't.. like a (legacy) HK.

At some point we are long past, it becomes about an emotional investment, and not about practicality.