"I came here, where freedom is being defended, to serve it, and to live or die for it

[Ned Christiansen]

I was in the Chicago federal building 6-7 years ago and there was a nice bronze plaque honoring Pulaski. It had a similar quote.... maybe it was the same one but I remember it more like, "Though I was born in Poland, my place is wherever freedom and liberty are assailed, and my duty there is to fight to preserve it." Something like that. Wow, such great stuff. Surprising it hasn't been somehow modified to fit the new stupidity, or outright removed. American Poles can be very proud of him and Kościuszko.... there is a nice statue of him near Shedd's Aquarium.

We had some pretty significant help from foreigners in giving birth to this great nation (thinking also LaFayette).

[sundance435]

We had some pretty significant help from foreigners in giving birth to this great nation (thinking also LaFayette).

Yep. It's no stretch to say we wouldn't exist if not for the French. Then we exported a little of it to them in return.

[Ned Christiansen]

And yet it is still very stylish to ridicule the French at every opportunity. Never really thought that was right.

[SteyrAUG]

And yet it is still very stylish to ridicule the French at every opportunity. Never really thought that was right.

That would be mostly due to Charles DeGaulle who despite the fact that he fielded no armies at the time of French liberation demanded equal representation.

Then after the war he demanded that we give him a free hand in Indochina even though the US policy was self governance of former colonies liberated from the Japanese, to the point he threatened to join the communist sphere of influence if we didn't support his Indochina campaign. DeGaulle then decided to prove he was the most reprehensible person on the planet by releasing Japanese POWs to help him resecure parts of Indochina.

Then after his armies were destroyed at Dien Bin Phu he refused to let sick and dying French soldiers leave transport ships that had arrived in France in order to try and maintain the cover up with the French disaster in Indochina. A staggering amount of French wounded died on ships as they sat in French ports that would have otherwise lived.

There are dozens and dozens of reasons why DeGaulle was a horrible piece of shit and among them is a general disdain for the country of France simply because he dictated French policy for so long.

Personally I agree that we owe France a huge debt in the creation of our country. But I also agree that we largely repaid that debt in World War I when US forced helped defeat Germany. We definitely repaid the debt when we drove the Germans OUT of France in World War II.

Keep in mind, the French capitulated and became and ally of Nazi Germany, there were French divisions of the Waffen SS. Without even being asked, France helped the local Gestapo round up and deport French jews and jews who had fled nazi occupied europe to France to concentration camps and death camps. The French were more active than Italy when it came to finding and deporting jews.

French forces also fired on allied troops when they landed in French North Africa with one of the mission goals being the eventual liberation of France.

Obviously a lot of French people were involved in resistance movements, but the French government and specifically DeGaulle are why there was a lot of anti French disdain.

[jsbhike]

Keep in mind, the French capitulated and became and ally of Nazi Germany, there were French divisions of the Waffen SS.

That was the case in most(perhaps all?) countries the Nazis took over. I have heard the theory on why as being the Nazis fascism offered a better deal for people in those countries than their own monarchical/socialistic/communistic governments did.
Obviously, that was as long as they weren't in a group of the week the Nazis had the red ass towards and planned to exterminate.

I have to assume too it was trying something different since the old wasn't working for them. There was an interview a few years back with a Vietnamese guy that said the bulk weren't communists, just fed up with French rule and I assume that would go for the average Russian peasant under the czar.

[jsbhike]

Reading Pulaski's Wiki, he had a crony whose life, and death, was much like his own.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mich...ts_de_Fabriczy

[jbjh]

And yet it is still very stylish to ridicule the French at every opportunity. Never really thought that was right.

^^^^This

Go to New York and stand in Battery Park. When you’re looking at the Statue of Liberty, remember that you’re looking at a gift from the French.


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[Ned Christiansen]

Well, I was referring more to how people are so quick to scoff at every single individual French soldier and automatically and offhandedly brand him a coward. That ain't right

[jsbhike]

Well, I was referring more to how people are so quick to scoff at every single individual French soldier and automatically and offhandedly brand him a coward. That ain't right

Yeah freedom fries and assorted other nonsense grated on me considering the aid we received from them.

They also lost most of a generation of men willing to defend their home in WWI which was not the actions of cowards. That loss and any failures seems to have been largely on their leaders not the average Frenchman.

And DeGaulle did suck. Unfortunately, turds often float to the top.

[SteyrAUG]

Yeah freedom fries and assorted other nonsense grated on me considering the aid we received from them.

They also lost most of a generation of men willing to defend their home in WWI which was not the actions of cowards. That loss and any failures seems to have been largely on their leaders not the average Frenchman.

And DeGaulle did suck. Unfortunately, turds often float to the top.

If it helps, I think the one French PM with the supermodel wife dramatically improved US / French relations. Also think of Paris like NY, it's easy to dislike people from the "big city who think they are superior", but just as we might disdain the NY mindset, we know it's not really representative of the US and on 9-11 any NY resentment vanished, so even with idiots like Bloomburg running things it's not really genuine hate.

And if you happen to meet Norman French who grow up overlooking fields of white crosses, they remember why we are close allies. So even in France, it's a regional thing.