The One Gun Solution (GP Carbine) - Reality?

[pointblank4445]

When you say “passive” are you referring to NOD over non-dominant eye and aiming through the day optic (backup MRDS or otherwise) with your dominant eye and rifle shouldered? This is how I understood what Jack was describing with the piggyback MRDS.

Passive in that if your ir or laser will give you away...like your opposition has NODs or are sensitive to IR more so than humans (example our coyotes seem to notice when they get hit with the illuminator....or of you've ever been on the receiving end of a surefire Vampire)

I mention what you/Jack describe above (I know that I'm not a frequent flyer here so my words often go unnoticed) in my personal rig detail as I only have access to a single tube. I also feel I will get more out of a $425 RMR than a $2800 mawl...for the limited time I spend behind NV

[docsherm]

Passive in that if your ir or laser will give you away...like your opposition has NODs or are sensitive to IR more so than humans (example our coyotes seem to notice when they get hit with the illuminator....or of you've ever been on the receiving end of a surefire Vampire)

This is absolutely true. I cannot tell you how many times i have seen Conventional Army and Marine units at night working and it looked like a Pink Floyd laser light show under NVG. If the enemy has NV then it would be a slaughterhouse..........
As it is super easy to find and shoot people.


Passive NV means that you are not emitting any light signature, eithe white light of IR light.

[Ironman8]

Passive in that if your ir or laser will give you away...like your opposition has NODs or are sensitive to IR more so than humans (example our coyotes seem to notice when they get hit with the illuminator....or of you've ever been on the receiving end of a surefire Vampire)

I mention what you/Jack describe above (I know that I'm not a frequent flyer here so my words often go unnoticed) in my personal rig detail as I only have access to a single tube. I also feel I will get more out of a $425 RMR than a $2800 mawl...for the limited time I spend behind NV

Thanks. Both posts are great perspective that adds to the discussion. I guess I was thinking of “passive” as having the NOD placed behind the day optic, but I guess that would be for a more static (vs passive) environment. I had the terminology wrong.

So are you completely foregoing an IR laser/illum for the MRDS option or still using it as primary active IR aiming device with the MRDS as a passive and/or daytime backup? Wasn’t sure after re-reading your posts.

[drsal]

I reside in somewhat congested city, my simple, only one 'long gun' solution is a 10.3" DDV7 with a TA44 ACOG. For anything up to or under 150 yards, its fine. No long range > 200yd shots needed, no real use for NV. Just a simple reliable discrete weapon and easy to transport covertly in the condo elevator.

[Wake27]

Thanks. Both posts are great perspective that adds to the discussion. I guess I was thinking of “passive” as having the NOD placed behind the day optic, but I guess that would be for a more static (vs passive) environment. I had the terminology wrong.

So are you completely foregoing an IR laser/illum for the MRDS option or still using it as primary active IR aiming device with the MRDS as a passive and/or daytime backup? Wasn’t sure after re-reading your posts.

I've always understood it to apply to either method, the point just being exactly what doc said about not emitting light.

That said, I have no idea how someone can use a mono on one eye and day aiming optic on the other. I tried it with a PVS-14 and ACOG and it was rough. Not sure if I just suck or there's a fair learning curve to it but I experimented with it for a few days at JRTC. I had better luck just walking the gun onto my target from watching where the miles laser impacted.

[pointblank4445]

Thanks. Both posts are great perspective that adds to the discussion. I guess I was thinking of “passive” as having the NOD placed behind the day optic, but I guess that would be for a more static (vs passive) environment. I had the terminology wrong.

So are you completely foregoing an IR laser/illum for the MRDS option or still using it as primary active IR aiming device with the MRDS as a passive and/or daytime backup? Wasn’t sure after re-reading your posts.

I look at it this way....
Consider armor/plate selection by anyone state-side (LE or civilian) and the proliferation of M855 green tip. One who is purchasing a rifle plate has to factor in the consideration that the likelihood of M855 being used against them is viable and it's a gamble to overlook the ability to defeat it.

I feel similarly with the increased proliferation of NV equipment among the average user. I know SEVERAL cheapo farmers that with their junk NV predator hunter units could cause problems for dudes who (as Doc put it) make the night look like a Floyd show. We've had a long stint overseas where our military is exploiting our enemy's lack of tech/capability and that's not necessarily the case here with NV becoming more prolific.

Don't get me wrong, IR lasers and NV freaking rock, but I don't want to assume anymore that I'm the only kid on my block with that ability.

I'm only foregoing it from a mere value/use standpoint. I still have the ability to aim and shoot stuff under NV and it's passive. It's not the best but it's an option...and my tactics are impacted by my choices. With the IR laser/illuminator, I found that I would make compromises on my optic mount height/field of view obstruction or switchology/light location to allow for it despite the infrequency that the capability was used by my team....or you have something like a MAWL with a hefty cost penalty (or civilian rated junk that costs too much for the limited capability).

If the Covid thing has taught me anything, it's not that I have any gear deficiencies...rather that I wish I live on a bigger piece of land and that $2800 might be better suited for that endeavor rather than tech that will be out of date in 10 years...

But that's my take on it.

[pointblank4445]

I've always understood it to apply to either method, the point just being exactly what doc said about not emitting light.

That said, I have no idea how someone can use a mono on one eye and day aiming optic on the other.

When our braintrust leadership realized we dodged a bullet by having NV outside of snipers, they bought a bunch of PVS14's no lasers.

We had to quickly develop some stopgap measures. You basically could achieve kind of a Bindon aiming concept with an RDS or with pistol nightsights. It was ugly and slow but if practiced it was possible.

Dudes rocking piggyback or tall enough mounted RMR/Eotech/non-tube red dot holosights could Mike Pannone cant that and get the PVS behind it and were more effective.

[Wake27]

When our braintrust leadership realized we dodged a bullet by having NV outside of snipers, they bought a bunch of PVS14's no lasers.

We had to quickly develop some stopgap measures. You basically could achieve kind of a Bindon aiming concept with an RDS or with pistol nightsights. It was ugly and slow but if practiced it was possible.

Dudes rocking piggyback or tall enough mounted RMR/Eotech/non-tube red dot holosights could Mike Pannone cant that and get the PVS behind it and were more effective.

Yeah support companies to infantry BNs are the same way. NODs but no lasers. Luckily my current unit is a better unit so we have plenty of PEQs.

[Failure2Stop]

Thank you Sir. By low power do you mean 1-4, 1-6 ?

Agree with the other response; anything at (or close to) 1x at the bottom, and up to 10x currently.
The biggest question is really what your budget is (don't forget to factor in mount), and if there are any features that you know you must have. There are examples in each price range that stand out above others, and a few that I have as personal favorites.

I still have a 1-4x NightForce that is great.
1-6x are still completely viable; the Leupold VX6 Multigun (now discontinued) is solid, and at around $1200 were a great value. The Swarovski 1-6x with BRTi reticle was huge in 3-gun, but lacked in overall robustness; at around 2k it was one of the top 1-6 options before the 1-8s really hit. I am fond of the Kahles k16i as well, though while generally considered to be "hardened" Swarovskis, I liked the BRTi reticle of the Swaro more and the forgiveness of the Swaro seemed better. I may like it more with the new Kahles 3GR reticle. But at around 2k as well, it isn't in a different category. For around $1200, the Bushnell 1-6.5x is a good value. My 1-6s are on 11.5" and 14.5" 5.56 rifles.

I also own a couple 1-8x, with time on a bunch. The original Leupy 1.1-8x is a tank, and has several good features, but is prohibitively costly for most, and somewhat outclassed with the 1-8s that have dropped in the last few years. My two favorites are the NF NX8 1-8x and the now discontinued Swarovski 1-8x BRTi. I like the ATACR 1-8 as well, but I tend to favor just stepping up in magnification/reticle/adjustment for the guns that would usually get the 1-8x ATACR. My 1-8x NX8 lives on a 14.5" 7.62 SR-25, with a realistic max expected range of 500 meters, with 90% inside 200 meters. While I would prefer a more optimized reticle in the NX8, it gets me what I need for inside 200. My Swaro 1-8x is on a 14.5" 6.5 Creedmoor SR-25, that I use as a lightweight precision rifle with a suppressor that I get in and out of vehicles with and move through restrictive terrain with, with expectation to get fast lethal hits from 5 meters to 500 meters, with limited expectation out to 800 meters. In this setup, weight is very important; and with a light, laser, bipod, and suppressor, cutting weight wherever available while retaining capability is why I favored a lightweight 1-8 over a 4-16 with top-mounted dot. In neither application does a FFP reticle give an advantage for me, so the weight and expense of that feature was not necessary. I do use the Swarovski ballistic turret on the 1-8, which I find very useful for precision application past 800 or so.

[hotrodder636]

One point I haven’t really seen discussed or mentioned is if going with the 12.5”, would you use a carbine length or mid length gas system?