H&K sp5k-pdw

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

I have a PTR-9K, their MP-5K version. It was a result of over enthusiastic session on Gunbroker, where I thought I might have paid a bit too close to MSRP. There was no inkling of HK SP5 at that point. My first personally owned Clone but some experience with department issue full autos in the distant past,15-20 years back.

The PTR works fine for me, suppressed or unsuppressed. Sewing machine reliability with HK and KCI mags and very good even with the sole ETS mag I have tried after a slight break in period. Build quality is fine too - tight pins that need some light taps to seat, but nothing unmanageable in the first 1000 rounds.

My one recommendation is to skip the Kurz and get the standard length. The balance and shooting posture is just off when that short. I heard others recommend that and I did not heed...

Like this one?

https://atlanticfirearms.com/ptr-9kt-pistol-ptr-603

For the 'K', what is the general order of preference for the non-HK guns?

[freeride1]

Like this one?

https://atlanticfirearms.com/ptr-9kt-pistol-ptr-603

For the 'K', what is the general order of preference for the non-HK guns?

For me, I prefer my German guns. There is a difference and "just as good" isn't.

But since you asked for order of preference for non-german guns:
1. High end clones (RDTS, Dakota Tactical, etc) these run almost as much as German guns so I have never seen the point unless you are after a strange configuration.
2. Contract built copies, (MKE, POF, etc.). You really need to get in on an initial import run, because they get EXPENSIVE fast.
3. PTR and other budget american clones like Bailey guns and Atlantic offerings. These always have wider QC variance and even good examples are never anywhere near as refined a proper German or even good contract gun.

As for the budget American guns, you'll find some fierce defenders on the internet. I started out with one and was very happy with it until I bought an MKE. I immediately stopped using it, as even when it worked it was nowhere near as refined. I've since gone all German and that was another step up.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

2. Contract built copies, (MKE, POF, etc.). You really need to get in on an initial import run, because they get EXPENSIVE fast.
.

What does this mean? People get the tooling, or have the tooling, and someone orders a bunch for a contract, and there are overruns that get sold? That implies that these lines aren't in serial production and what gets to US civy is just extras from runs?

I'm still planning on getting a HK PDW, but one-is-none and I wouldn't mind having a beater to play with from time to time. Plus the HK SP5KPDW seems pretty rare. I don't know if my LGS has seen more than one.

[SteyrAUG]

What does this mean? People get the tooling, or have the tooling, and someone orders a bunch for a contract, and there are overruns that get sold? That implies that these lines aren't in serial production and what gets to US civy is just extras from runs?

I'm still planning on getting a HK PDW, but one-is-none and I wouldn't mind having a beater to play with from time to time. Plus the HK SP5KPDW seems pretty rare. I don't know if my LGS has seen more than one.

Contract guns are guns built in factories set up by HK to HK specs which is why they are actually number 1 over any clone made by anyone.

Now POF and MKE (especially when it comes to commercial product for export) might not strictly adhere to HK specifications, but it is still built on what is essentially a HK production line built by HK and set up by HK.

[Mr_Happy1]

Please excuse my ignorance, but when you say set-up by HK, does that mean they train the machinists and gunsmiths on the line?

[SteyrAUG]

Please excuse my ignorance, but when you say set-up by HK, does that mean they train the machinists and gunsmiths on the line?

If you apply to HK for a contract facility. They build your site, complete with HK patented tools, presses, etc. and a bunch of guys named Hans and Franz show up to show you how to operate it. And yes, generally it's a fully supported operation.

Examples of HK contact factories are FMP (Portugal), EBO (Greece), MKE (Turkey), POF (Pakistan) and a few others. Mexico has a contract factory but I forget the designation, Iran has one but it's no longer supported by HK since 1979. FMP is out of the biz.

That said, when MKE and POF decide to produce commercial guns for export, they make changes both to comply with US import laws and they probably make quality concessions for profit considerations. But you have a better chance of getting a firearm that still meets factory specifications than some hand crafted clone no matter how talented the gunsmith is.

Bottom line is HK stamped receiver firearms are not kalashnikovs, they aren't intended to be made in bicycle shops or caves. They are intended to be mass produced in a HK contract facility. Lots and lots of room for error if you don't happen to have one of those. This is why so many HK clones are hit and miss and they try and correct build errors with oversized rollers and crap like that. The only people that think they are great are those who have never fired the real thing and don't understand that the MP5 clone in their hands is pretty much functioning as a straight blow back.

JLD / PTR actually obtained tools and presses from FMP for their G3 series and supposedly have the tooling for the 33 series. Buy except for the GI profile barrel (which I personally haven't seen and tried yet), they went way off spec for all of their PTR 91 rifles and initially with great failure. The rifle was never meant to be a tight chamber, match grade rifle.

[Bret]

The only people that think they are great are those who have never fired the real thing and don't understand that the MP5 clone in their hands is pretty much functioning as a straight blow back.

That's a pretty broad statement. Where's your evidence that my MKE Z-5RS is functioning as a straight blow back??

[Ron3]

But except for the GI profile barrel (which I personally haven't seen and tried yet), they went way off spec for all of their PTR 91 rifles and initially with great failure. The rifle was never meant to be a tight chamber, match grade rifle.

They did with initial offerings many years ago. But the "GI" models run great. I've had 3 PTR's, 2 with the GI barrel. All ran great with quality ammunition and Russian junk.

[FromMyColdDeadHand]

That's a pretty broad statement. Where's your evidence that my MKE Z-5RS is functioning as a straight blow back??

OK, those comments got me spending an hour looking for super-super slow mo's of guns firing. I guess if a GDBB and a BB gun were shot side by side, they would look the same. I guess the GDBB would have higher bolt velocity than a straight BB gun?

Interestly, with my P7 and the new Alien, people descibe them as 'snappy'- which should make sense - the bolt is light, but delayed, when it starts moving, it will move fast. IF it hits the back stop, you'd feel it, and with a high velocity, it would feel 'snappy'

But really, for the life of me, I can't really see any delay in most slow-mos of the actions. Probably, I'm having an issues with seeing the bullet, and I'm going off the pressure wave out the front. I figure someone has to have an UZI versus MP5, or I guess it would be better to have two closed bolt guns. I guess you can't 'delay' much, or else the bolt would lose too much momemtum.

[JoshNC]

OK, those comments got me spending an hour looking for super-super slow mo's of guns firing. I guess if a GDBB and a BB gun were shot side by side, they would look the same. I guess the GDBB would have higher bolt velocity than a straight BB gun?

Interestly, with my P7 and the new Alien, people descibe them as 'snappy'- which should make sense - the bolt is light, but delayed, when it starts moving, it will move fast. IF it hits the back stop, you'd feel it, and with a high velocity, it would feel 'snappy'

But really, for the life of me, I can't really see any delay in most slow-mos of the actions. Probably, I'm having an issues with seeing the bullet, and I'm going off the pressure wave out the front. I figure someone has to have an UZI versus MP5, or I guess it would be better to have two closed bolt guns. I guess you can't 'delay' much, or else the bolt would lose too much momemtum.

Uzi is a totally different animal in FA. It’s open bolt and uses advanced primer ignition which uses some of the forward motion of the bolt to delay bolt opening. It makes the FA Uzi among the quietest suppressed SMGs when shooting subs.