I am really struggling with LPVOs

[pointblank4445]

Anything past 60yds I believe would require SWAT or tactical response teams as the liability becomes an issue.

Which is actually pathetic (mostly because of the truth of it). What's worse is most on your average SWAT team (most are not full-time) couldn't/wouldn't take that shot either..."Sniper up".

[dan1612]

Both myths.
My agency allows low power variables with a top end no greater than 6.
And they issue SOLGWs with Aimpoint Pros. I slapped a g33 behind mine. I also know a buddy in a neighboring jurisdiction who took and made a shot over 100 recently.

[dwhitehorne]

OP you have to use what works for you but remember you are comparing a short time using a LPVO with years of familarity with your red dot or Acog. Kind of like trying people trying a red dot on a handgun and immediately not liking it because of decades of use on irons. I will say I ran a Leupold for
8 years at work and took a while to get use to it. I was issued various rifles from 1987 to 2020 and only had my Leupold the last 8 years. It took over a decade for red dots on long guns to gain a foothold. Now you have many shooters not even bothering with iron sights anymore. I suspect the LPVO will also take sometime to gain wide range acceptance. Many support side presentations and working in the roll over prone on the Vtac barricade is what it took for me. I will say the scope you have is on the heavy side for me and 1x8 is a little overkill for under 100 yards. It's a great excuse to have multiple AR's for the different sight options. Good luck with your choice. David

[RUTGERS95]

Which is actually pathetic (mostly because of the truth of it). What's worse is most on your average SWAT team (most are not full-time) couldn't/wouldn't take that shot either..."Sniper up".

I think our most effective units are our Transit teams where the training and duration is more consistent with rounds downrange and varying scenarios. They have specialized teams that make your standard swat guys look like rank amateurs.

[RUTGERS95]

Both myths.
My agency allows low power variables with a top end no greater than 6.
And they issue SOLGWs with Aimpoint Pros. I slapped a g33 behind mine. I also know a buddy in a neighboring jurisdiction who took and made a shot over 100 recently.

where in NJ are you?

[RUTGERS95]

Both myths.
My agency allows low power variables with a top end no greater than 6.
And they issue SOLGWs with Aimpoint Pros. I slapped a g33 behind mine. I also know a buddy in a neighboring jurisdiction who took and made a shot over 100 recently.

where in NJ are you?

[dan1612]

where in NJ are you?

Florida panhandle

[pointblank4445]

Both myths.
My agency allows low power variables with a top end no greater than 6.
And they issue SOLGWs with Aimpoint Pros. I slapped a g33 behind mine. I also know a buddy in a neighboring jurisdiction who took and made a shot over 100 recently.

I think our most effective units are our Transit teams where the training and duration is more consistent with rounds downrange and varying scenarios. They have specialized teams that make your standard swat guys look like rank amateurs.

Look, the reason I said what I said was not to start a pissing match between who is better or not. I forgot I was on M4C for a minute and have to change gears.

I've seen what I've seen over the last 2 decades and it is what it is. I still stand by my assertion that: In a given scenario beyond 50y, the confidence of the user to facilitate an abrupt and immediate incapacitating shot to the cranial vault/t-zone (or whatever your preferred term) or to the relatively small area to immediately cease heart function pretty much follows the Dunning-Kruger curve...with your "average swat" falling in the dip of "average to above-average" where there is at least some pause if told that there is zero fail option.


THE REASON I SAY THIS relevant to the OP topic at hand as a majority of the average swat guys I have trained and served with are also the types that aren't too keen on bullet accuracy performance either. A lot of "if M855 is good enough for the military it's good enough for us". Still a fair amount that feel that irons should be considered primary aiming solutions and rds's are "supplemental" and magnified optics should be for snipers.

In other words, a large part of the equation is the refusal to harness and fully utilize equipment that will enhance performance capability...and I see some of this same narrow vision in the initial posts of this thread that mirror the same mentality that have impeded I've seen doing the job.


You can lead a horse to water...
Been using LPVO's since before most of you could probably afford a decent one (most still can't or won't spend the coin). Yet, I still hear folks dip their toe in the pond and make claims like:
"There's no need for FFP at all"
"You'll never dial on an LPVO, so I don't need that"
"I only care about the optic at 1x and 8x/6x (or whatever the top end)...."
"I'll never need to shoot that far/see that far"


I'll leave ya'll with some of my LPVO goodness from back in the day BEFORE joining the sniper element...CHEERS
PS, that 1.1-4x S&B saved more than a few asses with my ability to see where an EOTech could not.

[1168]

Guys, this isn’t a topic worth getting emotional about. Magnifiers and LPVOs share overlapping space between dots and high powered scopes. People that place close range performance and light weight over all else will lean to dots w/wo magnifiers. Dudes that are cool with adding a little more weight in exchange for some more x’s on the mag ring and maybe a good reticle will lean to LPVOs. Both are in use in LE (including non-sniper/DM roles), competition, home defense, and military roles. There’s not a right or wrong answer.

[Disciple]

Yet, I still hear folks dip their toe in the pond and make claims like:
"There's no need for FFP at all"
"You'll never dial on an LPVO, so I don't need that"
"I only care about the optic at 1x and 8x/6x (or whatever the top end)...."

I would like to read your correction of these misconceptions, especially the last one.