- Will
General Performance/Fitness Advice for all
www.BrinkZone.com
LE/Mil specific info:
https://brinkzone.com/category/swatleomilitary/
“Those who do not view armed self defense as a basic human right, ignore the mass graves of those who died on their knees at the hands of tyrants.”
The last time I bought any it was about 25 cents a round. I hear gun and ammo sales have fallen off of a cliff over the Summer, so we could very well see prices for Lake City back in the .30s. Now that manufacturing is cooling down across the board, the raw materials might be coming back down in price.
I suspect it's more an issue of us using a round designed for a Soviet enemy we anticipated might be wearing body armor on the battlefield but instead we ended up shooting naked Africans. So in many, many cases the round simply clean holed through them and they continued to shoot at you. The vast majority died later after a magazine or two of returned fire. The guys who found bone or got good hits on internals got better results.
That said, I always love flight time at 500 yards and beyond.
It's hard to be a ACLU hating, philosophically Libertarian, socially liberal, fiscally conservative, scientifically grounded, agnostic, porn admiring gun owner who believes in self determination.
Chuck, we miss ya man.
كافر
The question is will it penetrate SAPI and ESAPI.
Last edited by mack7.62; 08-06-22 at 08:34.
“The Trump Doctrine is ‘We’re America, Bitch.’ That’s the Trump Doctrine.”
"He is free to evade reality, he is free to unfocus his mind and stumble blindly down any road he pleases, but not free to avoid the abyss he refuses to see."
Last edited by ABNAK; 08-06-22 at 08:36.
11C2P '83-'87
Airborne Infantry
F**k China!
OK looking at the standards ESAPI is up to revision J and is rated to stop 3 rounds of M995 AP. I am starting to think the A zone on a IPSC target should be scored as a miss,
“The Trump Doctrine is ‘We’re America, Bitch.’ That’s the Trump Doctrine.”
"He is free to evade reality, he is free to unfocus his mind and stumble blindly down any road he pleases, but not free to avoid the abyss he refuses to see."
That was the hypothesis put forward by someone the author may or may not have interviewed, but there are problems with it. The main problem is not one single body was recovered to show that the M855 had failed in even one single case. Neither was any body recovered from the Delta sniper's targets to show that his rounds were any more lethal, irrespective of shot placement. The Occam's explanation in this case is that the Delta sniper was making solid A zone hits, vs. the rangers with their iron sighted M16s. I'm not saying Rangers are bad shots by any means, but we're talking semi pro vs. the literal best of the best in terms of combat marksmanship.
People also have faulty ideas about how 223 behaves in human targets. In muscular tissue, the results are far less dramatic than say a head shot for example. So whether the bullet tumbles and frags or not isn't as massive of a determining factor as most people assume. That is, if it strikes an inelastic tissue like the brain, whether it tumbles or not is pretty much irrelevant. Whether it makes a small hole through someone's head or takes half their head off is irrelevant in most cases; either way, that person is likely out of the fight.
Likewise, when you're talking about the extremely elastic, muscular tissues of the A zone and its organs, it's also somewhat irrelevant whether it tumbles or not. A miss is still a miss. If the bullet fails to directly strike an organ or major vessel, the chances of a successful stop are probably remote. The main thing people fail to appreciate is that humans aren't solid like a block of gel. We're made up of all kinds of little bags all contained in one big bag, and those little bags are extremely tough and can move around a lot. If it fragments, there's always the chance that one of the fragments will pierce a major vessel, but that's not always going to produce results, and even more seldom will they be immediate. The main problem with the fragment strategy of bullet design is that things tend to follow the path of least resistance, which is around organs via the intersecting tissue planes. You always hear about how bullets and fragments of bullets that entered a shoulder end up found in someone's hip, and the assumption is that they travel in a straight line through all that tissue. When in reality they simply skate around gliding through the body in the spaces between organs.
There are always outliers, but for the most part, if you don't directly strike a vital organ or major vessel your target is not going down. He may have a nasty gaping cavity somewhere in him that's going to be irreparable and cause him to bleed out on the operating table hours later, but that's not going to prevent him from shooting back at you. And in the vast, vast majority of cases, it wouldn't have mattered what you shot him with (range notwithstanding). Whether it was 9mm or the nastiest 7.62 hollow point you could find, the basic equation is highly unlikely to change. Good hits to the A zone are highly likely to succeed, and misplaced shots are highly likely to fail. The only reasonable way a bullet itself can be said to have failed is if it either doesn't penetrate deeply enough, or if it veers off course because it doesn't have enough energy to power through bone and tissue planes in a straight line.
Last edited by okie; 08-06-22 at 11:30.
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