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Thread: Shooting in California Bar

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by FromMyColdDeadHand View Post
    Granted, if you are out for a night of dancing and drinking, carrying might not be a good idea, I'm just surprised that none of the 6 were unarmed. Is there some law or regulation that would have precluded them carrying?
    This varies from state to state and agency to agency. In X local states/jurisdictions it is absolutely prohibited for LEOs to carry while drinking and/or intoxicated. In X others, maybe not, but still frowned upon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Not all officers are gun people, some choose not to carry. It's not wise to pack heat at a bar, drinking, you might have to do a back flip. Ask an FBI agent in Denver.
    That. I hung up my badge for good 6 years ago. When I started back in 1987, it was not uncommon for guys to carry while out drinking. Over the years, it became more obvious that this was probably not a good idea. By the time I gave up the career, it was against SOP in many jurisdictions and against some states laws for anyone (including police officers) to carry in public while intoxicated. I can ABSOLUTELY understand why none of the off duty LEOs partaking in the festivities were armed.

    Remember... Bars are mostly "gun free zones".
    Last edited by Det-Sog; 11-08-18 at 13:29.
    U.S. Army vet. -- Retired 25 year LEO.

  2. #32
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    Shooting in California Bar

    This is getting old. I don’t mean the shootings in general; that’s a given, but the veteran aspect of it and blaming everything on PTSD*.

    *referring to the preliminary statements by the Sheriff

    You look at one of, if not arguably the most prosperous time in this country’s history and it was built with veterans of WW1, WW2, and Korea.

    Did some struggle if not all given the brutality of combat in that era, absolutely. But they also dealt with it like men and persevered to serve their families and their communities, not destroy them.

    Have we whom have seen combat witnessed and experienced difficult situations? Absolutely. But it is nothing that hasn’t been experienced since Biblical times. We volunteered for it knowing what was to lie ahead and we were trained and equipped with the skill set needed to fight against the evil of this world. We as combat veterans are victims of nothing.

    It’s time to end the pity party and the enabling of it. It can be done in a respectful manner and an honest manner which is what combat veterans deserve.

    I’ve loved Mattis’ remarks on the topic in the past it is one of many reasons my son was named as such. To quote;

    The appropriately nicknamed Mad Dog took aim at a dangerous moving target: Post-Traumatic Stress. "You've been told that you're broken," said Mattis, "That you're damaged goods" and should be labeled victims of two unjust and poorly executed wars. The truth, instead, is that we are the only folks with the skills, determination, and values to ensure American dominance in this chaotic world.

    To a now-silent theater full of combat vets he explained how the nation has a "disease orientation" toward combat stress. Mad Dog's death blow was swift: "In America, victimhood is exalted."

    So what's the problem? We fought, we got a little screwed-up, and now civilians try to get us to talk about it a lot. Big deal.

    Except that it matters to General Mattis, and we should probably care what he thinks because chances are he's right. The problem, he contends, is that eventually we start believing it. We start seeing ourselves as broken. We buy into the myth.

    The alternative is something so obvious that it is pathetic we don't talk about it more. "There is also Post-Traumatic Growth," Mattis told the crowd. "You come back from war stronger and more sure of who you are."

    This concept resonates strongly with me, and several other combat vets with whom I spoke/mumbled late into the evening over drinks. After all, it's a process we've all been through many times in the military. Growth after trauma is how we train to become physically fit and mentally capable of working together as a combat-effective team.

    Break down, repair, break down, repair, break down, repair. It's a natural cycle, which offers a well-trod path to progressive improvement.
    Last edited by ZGXtreme; 11-08-18 at 13:30.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAZ View Post
    Clad in black with a hood on??? Where have we seen that before?
    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    Sounds like it might possibly be an antifa type attack. Dress and target would seem appropriate.
    Being clad in black, with a black hood, is not an uncommon costume for those committing mass shootings.

    Quote Originally Posted by SomeOtherGuy View Post
    Seriously on the Vegas massacre survivors? Source? Talk about bad luck and/or crisis actors... although it seems at least plausible given that Vegas was a huge concert, this was a bar with music, and the two aren't all that far apart.
    IIRC, someone who had been in the Murrah Federal building in OKC on 19 April 1995 and the WTC on 9/11 (2001), managed to get gassed (to death) by the FSB at the Dubrovka theater in 2002. Some people just wouldn't have any luck if it weren't for bad luck.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
    - Samuel Adams -

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZGXtreme View Post
    This is getting old. I don’t mean the shootings in general; that’s a given, but the veteran aspect of it and blaming everything on PTSD*.

    *referring to the preliminary statements by the Sheriff

    You look at one of, if not arguably the most prosperous time in this country’s history and it was built with veterans of WW1, WW2, and Korea.

    Did some struggle if not all given the brutality of combat in that era, absolutely. But they also dealt with it like men and persevered to serve their families and their communities, not destroy them.
    This! I tired of the PTSD excuse for every friggin thing. To your point, America has had WAY worse/bloody conflicts, and we did not see this shoot'em up fad.
    "What would a $2,000 Geissele Super Duty do that a $500 PSA door buster on Black Friday couldn't do?" - Stopsign32v

  5. #35
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    I'm listening to NPR, right now, and they're refusing to use the PODS's name.

    Cool. Maybe not using it will help reduce the frequency and probability of a repeat of the event.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
    - Samuel Adams -

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    IIRC, someone who had been in the Murrah Federal building in OKC on 19 April 1995 and the WTC on 9/11 (2001), managed to get gassed (to death) by the FSB at the Dubrovka theater in 2002. Some people just wouldn't have any luck if it weren't for bad luck.
    That may as well be a plot in a Final Destination movie sequel. Crazy.
    I am part of that power which eternally wills evil, and eternally works good.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZGXtreme View Post
    This is getting old. I don’t mean the shootings in general; that’s a given, but the veteran aspect of it and blaming everything on PTSD*.

    *referring to the preliminary statements by the Sheriff

    You look at one of, if not arguably the most prosperous time in this country’s history and it was built with veterans of WW1, WW2, and Korea.

    Did some struggle if not all given the brutality of combat in that era, absolutely. But they also dealt with it like men and persevered to serve their families and their communities, not destroy them.

    Have we whom have seen combat witnessed and experienced difficult situations? Absolutely. But it is nothing that hasn’t been experienced since Biblical times. We volunteered for it knowing what was to lie ahead and we were trained and equipped with the skill set needed to fight against the evil of this world. We as combat veterans are victims of nothing.

    It’s time to end the pity party and the enabling of it. It can be done in a respectful manner and an honest manner which is what combat veterans deserve.

    I’ve loved Mattis’ remarks on the topic in the past it is one of many reasons my son was named as such. To quote;
    I'm not a veteran, but I can see the writing on the wall. If you are a combat veteran I'd be very concerned with your future gun rights. I'll be standing right next to you fighting for them, but it really looks like you might be the next target of the gun grabbers. It doesn't help when there are veterans that are anti-2nd and won't help you.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MountainRaven View Post
    Being clad in black, with a black hood, is not an uncommon costume for those committing mass shootings.
    If you were anti-fa and have a beef with people who are White, Conservative and likely didn't vote for your favorite Leftist the day before, well, shooting up a bar featuring Country Music might be a prime target.
    I'm not saying it is, I just wouldn't be in a rush to totally discard that possibility. The violence has taken a real uptick, they were outside Tucker Carlson's house harassing his wife the other night.
    I'm just saying, you never know...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
    I'm not a veteran, but I can see the writing on the wall. If you are a combat veteran I'd be very concerned with your future gun rights. I'll be standing right next to you fighting for them, but it really looks like you might be the next target of the gun grabbers. It doesn't help when there are veterans that are anti-2nd and won't help you.
    And I wonder how many Combat Vet's with PTSD refuse to get treatment because they are sure that shoe is going to drop at any moment?

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    And I wonder how many Combat Vet's with PTSD refuse to get treatment because they are sure that shoe is going to drop at any moment?
    Unfortunately, I know several. They do what they can by working with each other and try to stay off the VA's radar.

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