IF you had to take the vaccine, which one should you take?

[mRad]

I've seen as much covid as any other doc out there, I'm a practicing Emergency Physician in a high covid population that on a normal day are not healthy.

There will always be side effects taking any medication or drug. Most won't have a problem, some will, and others will think they had a problem. This is not new. If you eat enough fruit roll ups most won't have a problem, some will, and others will think its the fruit roll up that caused their problems. The problem I've seen in threads like this one and most of the others is that people are struggling with risk assessment.

Lots on hear say they are healthy and will be fine. Maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows for sure. All the hand wringing over the vaccines is mostly static. Yes, adverse events happen, but that's no different than any other drug or activity that we do. Basic point is that it is less risky for you to get the vaccine than to get covid.

Looking at the data the mRNA vaccines are pretty darn good but not perfect. Most docs didn't expect them to be perfect. They do decrease your chances of getting the Rona, but if you do, you have much less chances of having severe disease. My hospital sees 16% of admitted cases as breakthrough cases, the other 84% are the unvaccinated. Only one of our vaccinated crowd died and that individual had multiple other comorbidites, that's for over 400 deaths. That means they had a lot of reasons to die regardless of covid. Vaccines work under the 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months for a reaction. The tiny little bit of mRNA is gone from your body after the first few months. All this talk of "years down the road" is not based on anything except anxiety and fear. I see people shoot themselves up with all kinds of trash drugs from the street. They still have babies, they still live, and if they quit, can go on to live normal lives.

Hearing stories about this lady had a heart attack seems odd: why did she develop a lifetime of atherosclerosis in a day? Makes no sense it was the vaccine.
Story of older lady who needs transfusions: Why did the vaccine make all her blood go away? What? Doesn't make sense.
We have to remember that people have things happen to them all the time, why don't we blame the heart attack and the bleeding issue on the fruit roll up they had yesterday?

If you have kids, I don't see a compelling reason to vaccinate them unless they want it. This is essentially not a disease that effects kids in any great manner. Those who are severely sick have severe comorbidities again. The myocarditis issue is primarily for 16-29 yo males. If I was in that demographic, I wouldn't get the mRNA shot, and in that age group, unless I had other risk factors my chances off severe disease is extremely low. Just give me the J&J if I needed it at all.

J&J works good enough for most, but avoid if you're at risk for blood clotting or have a family history. The clots are real but rare. Again, need to be better at risk assessement.

Vaccines and this disease gets more nuanced for those that have already got sick. I'd say if you're young (<30yo), roll with your natural immunity. If you are older getting the vaccination will make your super human.

Mandates are stupid. Government overreach is stupid. Choosing not to get the Vax because you are scared of it is also stupid. Not getting the Vax to spite the mandates from the government is also dumb. Don't get the vaccination because you took a serious look at your age and health situation, not because you think you are getting chipped or because it will make you unhealthy later.

I've stayed out of this for a long time. Didn't see the need to argue with fantasy beliefs. I'll try to participate and answer questions here and there for a little bit unless it just gets nutty.

Thanks.

edit: Forgot to mention all the talk about faking covid positives to get hospitals paid is ridiculous. Just fantasy talk. My hospital is in dire straights from Covid. Shut down elective surgery, nursing shortage is real. Paying traveling nurses is expensive.

Already has the Rona, twice, I won’t get the vaccine because they tell me that I have to. I turned down a one year contract for 240k for three shifts in a COVID ICU per week; the same ICU I worked in for several years, because they required the vaccine. I was good enough to work the unit for 18 months without the vaccination running with them only giving me ONE N95 for the first six months of the pandemic. So yeah….

I appreciate you trying to inject some common sense to this crowd but it won’t go well for you. You’re going to be told that you’re a shill for the hospital, a shill for the government, and you’re bought and paid for by big Pharma. You’ll be accused of being in on a grand conspiracy and that you’re not to be trusted. Good luck, sir.


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[czgunner]

I don't want to argue with you, but your statement can come across as: the vaccine will not/can not cause issues. I don't know the exact answer to your medical questions. I do know that they died shortly after being vaccinated. I also do not know anybody that has died from the virus. I also had it last fall.

[mRad]

I don't want to argue with you, but your statement can come across as: the vaccine will not/can not cause issues. I don't know the exact answer to your medical questions. I do know that they died shortly after being vaccinated. I also do not know anybody that has died from the virus. I also had it last fall.

So then you must admit, correlation but you cannot assign causation.


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[Troutrunner]

Already has the Rona, twice, I won’t get the vaccine because they tell me that I have to. I turned down a one year contract for 240k for three shifts in a COVID ICU per week; the same ICU I worked in for several years, because they required the vaccine. I was good enough to work the unit for 18 months without the vaccination running with them only giving me ONE N95 for the first six months of the pandemic. So yeah….

I appreciate you trying to inject some common sense to this crowd but it won’t go well for you. You’re going to be told that you’re a shill for the hospital, a shill for the government, and you’re bought and paid for by big Pharma. You’ll be accused of being in on a grand conspiracy and that you’re not to be trusted. Good luck, sir.


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Natural immunity - the CDC and all the mandate craziness has completely dropped the ball on this one. If you've had it and are young and low risk I think this should count for something. Agree that the vaccine is not the only way out of this. Everyone will get it eventually, but hopefully it becomes like the other coronavirus' that we get every year and is just a simple cold. That's the goal.

If had the virus and your older or with risk factors, add in a single vaccination and your super human.

One of the reasons for the booster is the rush to get the vaccine out. Pfizer is 3 weeks between shots and Moderna was 4 weeks. Moderna showed a little longer lasting effect with floating antibodies. Both still work to call in the troops from off the bench. Anyway, the problem was big and we needed a fast response. If the original studies put 3-6 months between the two shots we might not be talking about boosters. But, such is the race for the cure (or rather to diminish the severity).

Mandates still suck, this is America. People should get to choose what they want to do, I just wish they made informed decisions and not off of fantasy conjecture.

CZGunner, yes the vaccine can cause problems, it's just that is is so exceedingly rare that it's not the reason not to get it. We do everyday things that are magnitudes more risky, this is a gun forum, and we do it anyway. That's why I mentioned that we are poor as a group looking at risk assessment.

I've known lots of people outside of my job that got the Rona (unvaccinated), they all have lived but I have lost a few coworkers to it (unvaccinated). It was easy for some and no picnic for others.

Comment about N95's not working is fantasy. They work and work well. They aren't comfortable and more expensive. I'm in the thick for 18 months and wear the n95 all day everyday at work. Keep in mind the virus is contained in respiratory particles making the size bigger than and individual virus. It's not like a single virus is floating around looking to bypass your N95. They are clumped together in your human moisture.

I'm not worried about being labeled. It's cool. There are people that will not be swayed despite the overwhelming data in support of vaccines. Maybe, these comments will help someone who is on the edge and just wanted their questions answered. No sleep lost.

[jsbhike]

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Comment about N95's not working is fantasy. They work and work well. They aren't comfortable and more expensive. I'm in the thick for 18 months and wear the n95 all day everyday at work. Keep in mind the virus is contained in respiratory particles making the size bigger than and individual virus. It's not like a single virus is floating around looking to bypass your N95. They are clumped together in your human moisture.

.

You might want to direct that at 3M then since they market the mask as stopping individual particles and the marketing sounds similar to their ear plug marketing from 20 years back that did turn out to be more fantasy than fact.

[jsbhike]

Already has the Rona, twice, I won’t get the vaccine because they tell me that I have to. I turned down a one year contract for 240k for three shifts in a COVID ICU per week; the same ICU I worked in for several years, because they required the vaccine. I was good enough to work the unit for 18 months without the vaccination running with them only giving me ONE N95 for the first six months of the pandemic. So yeah….

I appreciate you trying to inject some common sense to this crowd but it won’t go well for you. You’re going to be told that you’re a shill for the hospital, a shill for the government, and you’re bought and paid for by big Pharma. You’ll be accused of being in on a grand conspiracy and that you’re not to be trusted. Good luck, sir.


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Not sure if the people are/were shills or what, but any comment other than the strict party line would get criticized as conspiracy theories or out right lies. The mention of the motorcycle wreck caused by covid would get a round of comments claiming that never did, and never could, happen due to medical protocol and ethics.

The video of the medical examiner confirming the mention would then get the claims I and others were basically too stupid to understand what the ME and others falsifying the info really meant.

[mRad]

Not sure if the people are/were shills or what, but any comment other than the strict party line would get criticized as conspiracy theories or out right lies. The mention of the motorcycle wreck caused by covid would get a round of comments claiming that never did, and never could, happen due to medical protocol and ethics.

The video of the medical examiner confirming the mention would then get the claims I and others were basically too stupid to understand what the ME and others falsifying the info really meant.

Thank you for proving the point I made. Much appreciated.


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[prepare]

My take is cloth masks are dumb. Surgical masks provide some protection and the N95 is great. Wearing a mask outside is dumb. In a closed workspace I can see the point. If you had active TB would it still be shameful to wear the mask. Maybe we should focus on what works and what doesn't instead of shaming people for having a mask or shaming people for not being vaccinated. This party works both ways. I'd rather we focus on the realities.

Wish there wasn't all the confusion but stomping my feet and pouting isn't any better. Looking at the reality of the situation is a good thing.

With all the confusion and inconsistencies in the alternative protocols vs vaccination, what was it that made you believe that information instead of the other information?

Why didn't you just rock Rona cold, shirtless, standing in the wind, smoking a cigarette?

Many doctors have had success with early intervention and yet they were shut down, and censured. The CDC, FDA, NIH, and corporate medicine/hospitals played politics at the expense of human life and have seriously damaged the credibility of the entire medical system/profession.

[okie]

We don't know that "MOST" people have had the Rona. Current numbers are 266K positives, I agree that there are more due to barely having symptoms but how do we know? The point is, we don't. It's ok to not know, it's bad to claim that we know things when we don't. That's the fatal error, among others, that Fauci made. Never lie to the people. Just be honest about what you know and don't know.

2nd point - No argument that the vaccine decreases your chances of severe disease. Doesn't matter the one off stories people have. You have to deep dive each case, what are the comorbidities, other aspects of their health and what were the health factor for the others that did well. There is more to the virus related to genetics, race. etc, we don't know it all yet. The under the table slam is that the vaccine made them sicker, that's fantasy.

Boosters: Let's talk about what the vaccine does. It makes you make antibodies to fight the virus. These antibodies are circulating around and ready to get into the fight. When there is no fight we have a troop drawdown and they return to the barracks. Boosters call the troops back to the front as a show of force ready to fight at a moment's notice. This is beneficial for someone who is immunocompromised and need help and a jump on the enemy. Not everyone needs this help. If you are younger, healthy with none of the risk factors I don't see the need for the booster. When my body sees the enemy, I'll call up my boys and they will be deployed. Slower than if I was boosted, but I don't need the instant jump. Why aren't we arguing about the double dosing of all the other vaccines we get, MMR for example?

Agree that the monoclonal antibodies work, you get the boys dropped in for the fight in surge numbers. Bring it on!!

For the record the remdesivir and such are a coin toss. Kinda work but not on everyone and not all the time. Ivermectin is being appropriately studies but given what it is it most likely won't work. The initial studies were garbage. Hopefully, we get some clarification in the future like we did with hydrochloroquine.

Vaers: This is a self/hospital reporting mechanism, it cannot be taken as fact. It is reasonable to expect underreporting and over reporting at the same time. Truthfully, it is archaeic in design and this is where CDC/USA have dropped the ball. Yes, there are people who said the fruit roll up caused their stroke. I live the fantasy nightmares of people everyday, "No it's not the weed I smoke everyday making me throw up, it's because my landlord allowed cadmium in the drinking water from the city". Causation does not equal correlation. Happens everyday. Welcome to medicine in the 2000's. There is good info to have from VAERS but you have to get through all the static to find the problems. Problems like myocarditis and clots. These were weeded out from all the crazy talk from everyone thinking the fruit roll up caused their cancer. Do I think we'll find a few more issues with the vaccine, probably, we did with all the others but the issues were rare and the overall benefit of the vaccines to everyones risk was vastly superior to the rare negatives.

Oh you betcha there's an argument! But let's just assume you're right. Let's assume that taking an experimental vaccine that already has a deadly track record will reduce your chances of death from covid. Considering what those chances are for the average person to begin with, we're talking the difference between infinitesimally small and slightly less than that. How's that for some advertising? "Oh just take this experimental sorta kinda FDA approved but not really vaccine, that's already injured and killed a bunch of people, and we promise your chances of dying from covid will go down a few hundredths of a percent."

Indeed, let's talk about boosters. Israel found them necessary for the general population at three months. Now one month after the booster they're finding a second booster necessary for most people, and are in fact about to make it mandatory for fully vaccinated status to get into public places. This ain't the freaking MMR vaccine! MMR has fewer reports of injuries in its entire life than any of the covid jabs in just a few months, and by a lot. And they aren't having to threaten people with being taken to a concentration camp to get them to get it either. Most do, some don't, and ya know what? Nobody cares because we don't have cases, because the MMR vaccine works! And you know what else? Two shots last us for our entire lives! Nobody is going to hunt you down and make you a criminal because you didn't get your monthly MMR booster. How you can even compare those two is so far beyond me I can only conclude you have your own agenda here.

I never said VAERS can be taken as fact, but to dismiss it is insanity. We're not talking a slight increase here. We're talking orders of magnitude more reports, in a time frame that's orders of magnitude smaller than any other widely distributed vaccine in history. And all amid reports from nurses around the country testifying that 1, they do not have time to use the system, 2, that the system often won't work, meaning they can't make the report, and 3, that their bosses are pressuring them not to use it. This dismissal of VARES is a propaganda line from the administration. Yea it has problems, and no that doesn't make the numbers any less alarming, especially since the problems with it are weighted in the direction of underreporting.

[okie]

I put that in the category I mentiond before. You must tell the people the truth. This kinda of stuff feeds the flames of conspiracy and doesn't help the cause. They should not have done that.

They had to, because without doing that covid would have been paid zero attention to by the public. They had to lie to ram this whole agenda down our throats. And that includes the vaccines.