Presentation from the Holster

[NCPatrolAR]

Something I have started to do in classes that I teach is I ASK the students if they need me to demo it.

Same thing here. I will typically ask when Im getting the "deer looking at the headlights" look after explaining something.

[C4IGrant]

Same thing here. I will typically ask when Im getting the "deer looking at the headlights" look at explaining something.

I think this tells the students that you are paying attention to THEIR level of attention (which they appreciate).



C4

[Failure2Stop]

I taught a class in December while having a pinched nerve. I hardly demoed anything due to loses of strength and a decent amount of pain in my neck, back, shoulder, and support side arm/hand.
I still kick myself in the ass for not doing more shooting in the class.
At the end of the day following any class, I always think I could have done more demos.
For many drills I do the same that C4 does: ask if they want to see it done. As certain skills/drills are introduced, they benefit from demonstration, though not all of them require it.

Typos brought to you via Tapatalk and autocorrect.

[Arctic1]

that whole "visual learner" thing popular with people who have the cliff notes on teaching. At the end of the day you can't learn physical skills until you DO physical skills.

So you are saying that understanding the role of the anterior cingulate cortex has in regards to learning is important, and understanding the effects dopamine loss has on motivation, yet you claim that adherence to one of the oldest principles of teaching, individual adaptation, is just popular opinion?

People learn in different ways, and in order to help them learn you must provide them stimuli that is valuable to them. Some people don't learn very well by reading, but learn very fast by seeing. Some people don't learn very fast by seeing, but learn very fast by reading. Some learn very fast by seeing, then doing. Some grasp concepts just by listening.

Yes, they need to DO it as well, but different stimuli will decide how FAST individuals manage to do it.

The nature of the material being taught is infinitely more important than the pre-disposed wiring of the student when it comes to how teaching should be done.

So you are saying that the student is at fault if they cannot grasp or master the technique being taught? Because they cannot understand the theory or logic presented by the instructors? As instructors, it is our responsibility to make sure that students are showing the required progression. If they are not, with very few exceptions, that failure is on us as instructors.

If you fail to acknowledge the fact that people have different dispositions when it comes to learning, then you are failing as an instructor, and the nature of the material being taught is useless.

Just because some guy Did something or Can Do something doesn't prove value by itself.

Of course it does, it shows that the technique is being used by the instructors and it has value in real life situations. It does not mean it is the only valid technique, but it certainly lends credibility to what is being taught. Especially when it is an "original" concept.

But then again, what does an 18D know about casualty care.....

Let's say I want my guys to shoot 6 shots rapidly at a target from 7 meters, only hits inside an 8" circle count, and I need to do it in less than 2.5 seconds. If I can do that, in a calm and accurate manner, then it shows that the technique I have taught them allows them to accomplish the task. If I push it and do it faster while still maintaining the accuracy requirement, it shows that it is possible to progress with that technique.

And I don't really believe much just because of the resume of the person delivering the information.

Then why should people take what you teach/say at face value? You reference BTDT's in your classes sharing anecdotes, you claim that you have taught military units (insinuating SOF) to reinforce your technique. Why do you not demo it as well? In order to show that it works? Or do the points I listed above lend enough credibility in itself, in regards to the validity of your technique/philosophy?

[theblackknight]

Holy shit, I missed Jim Jones himself.


Rob, why do you and so many pysudo tactical people roll your shoulders forward, and tuck your head like a turtle? I don't see people Like Pat Mac,Kyle Lamb or GM IPSC shooters don't do this crap.Hell, Lamb looked like a Open shooter with his elbows bent down yet his splits seem pretty good.

Also, if you're trying to reach a everyman audience, why on earth do you use these wannabe coolguy industry buzzword phrases like"nondiagnostic, strategically operational,practitactical malfunction of stoppages clearing enguagment drill®"?

I'm no trainer, but it seems the whole movement,which is mostly dead, of "finding" what your body does under a critically stressful dynamic incident® and training for it based off that was a miss guided phase the industry went thru after certain people got done reading thier copy on On Combat and decided to apply those things they knew happened, instead of just using the ****ing slide release(it's like a trigger.. . . .for your slide!) and reloading in their workspace.

[JEL458]

Mr. Pincus,

I can appreciate not wanting your instructors to show off or spend an exorbitant amount of time shooting themselves. Unfortunately, I believe it does give the impression that they are teaching something that they themselves do not have a solid grasp of.

One of the YouTube links in this thread showed (what I believe was) a CFS Instructor actually firing on a paper target. The shot grouping from the distance he was shooting at was not impressive. Granted, he could have been firing from 50 yards before and that was where the group came from.

Thank you for taking the time to explain.

As I got into learning what I didn't know about shooting firearms, the instructors that I chose to learn from shot EVERY drill. So for me, it is normal and abnormal would be an instructor that wouldn't shoot the drill. C4

This has been my experience as well. Ken Hackathorn, LAV, Mike Pannone, Pat Rogers, Jeff Gonzales, etc. all demonstrated the drills that they asked us to shoot.

[Apricotshot]

There is a well known instructor out there, who is getting on in age, that has a assistant instructor do position demos. Since he has got to the age where demo-ing every drill and position for 3 straight days would injure or curtail his instruction he utilizes a younger man that is well versed in what he teaches and does it for him. The fact is, demos are still being done. Just not by the main instructor. I have no problem with that.

[G_M]

One important aspect of training I feel is to have a visual image of your goal. That is why instructors demonstrating at full speed are a great reference tool for me. The key thing though is to see true speed with hits and not something at ludicrous speed without showing hits like on youtube or a DVD.

On a side note I am starting to notice that teaching ability is emphasized to try and fill the lack of experience. Granted it is an important aspect, I find that the depth of this ability is as deep as their experience. Like their skills, the teaching is more form factor rather than substance. Kind of like the coaches that start with the pep talk, chalk talk, praise alot and run drills. Versus the "John Wooden's" who don't fit that cliche and intuitively understand deep practice and building myelin even though they don't know what that is.

[Surf]

Tyler, I get your passion and if you are reading this, here is a tip.... "Never say never" and "don't always say always." Comments that are in absolutes are best avoided and there are ways of phrasing things in print, or verbally face to face, that stress your beliefs without discounting any other possible / viable options.

As for the "demo" topic....for myself throughout my shooting career as a student, I 99.9% benefit from seeing something done. I am very much a visual learner and that from my own experience in learning ANYTHING, visual demonstration is by far and away the most effective method for me to grasp new materials / concepts etc...However it was not critically important for me to see every single drill being run by the instructor and there have been some 100% demo instructors that I did not like. But that was more of a personality conflict or something that rubbed me wrong about them, or an instructor that couldn't run a demo to save their life. Anyone that scoffs at visual learning is kidding themselves.

My student base is 99% LE (Local, State or Fed) or Military and my courses are predominantly advanced level shooting / tactics. That makeup of a student base tends to be a very tough crowd and I know this because I come from within that same crowd also. Because of this "tough crowd" they pretty much demand "proof". I start off doing demo's to ensure that the students have confidence in my shooting competency. I do not however demo 100% of the drills based on their experience levels. So it is my belief, in this student base especially, that demo is necessary to serve multiple purposes. Capture the audience and instill confidence of the instructors competency as a shooter, paint a moving picture for students to learn from / replicate and also to set a performance or achievement standard. The students will formulate confidence in the instructors verbal skills and their efficacy in relating or teaching the information quickly enough and personality goes a long way here. As an instructor, lacking in the ability to perform skills, or in the personality / verbal area and you will often lose many students and your effectiveness to teach goes out the window. Now when I do happen to teach on the civilian side of things, reputation is more easily taken at face value as to my shooting skills and teaching ability, but that does not mean that demo is not equally or sometimes more important. And by demo I believe in showing correct mechanics and marksmanship skills and how that reflects with results on target. Even an occasional roughly run demo by an instructor can have value provide the occurrence is minimal and what kind of context the instructor places on it, perhaps by pointing out mistakes he/she made that made the drill not a success. Of course these occurrences should be infrequent.

Having said that, when teaching a course, I will make it perfectly clear that I do not demo 100%. I also note that I will not ask a student to perform anything that I will not perform at a drop of a hat and this goes beyond just shooting skills, it can be anything topic that I teach. I will also make it 100% clear to students that I am a visual learner, so if any student is confused about how to perform any task don't be afraid to ask to see the drill performed because it may help them more to see it performed and then to perform it themselves. Of course common teaching sense in a good instructor will dictate the speed at which you may initially perform the drill, but even if the drill is performed slowly to show mechanics etc, I will also eventually perform the drill at full speed and this is by no means to show off. I always like to see a great shooter do a drill at full speed as it gives me a level of achievement to strive for.

I will also note that there are instances where I will purposely NOT demo a drill until perhaps after the drill had been shot. This is often done for difficult students or hard learners who may be very set in their ways. This is a very specific technique and needs to be done correctly or it can be very detrimental in the student / instructor relationship. Or it is sometimes a technique that I may use especially in advanced shooters to get a students creative juices flowing in an attempt to create thinkers.

As for the startle response, I do not discount it, but I will note that if you train a shooter to be sound in their base fundamentals, be it shooting, tactics etc and get them proficient in them, then that person can adapt to the situation presented, be it starting from a hands up, hands down startle, etc, etc, etc... Their proficiency and experience in training and correct repetition of practice that allows them the ability to effectively adapt to a given situation that may be "outside" of their normal training routine.

[beltjones]

MMA was mentioned previously in this thread, and it reminded me of some behavioral patterns I've seen from Rob Pincus.

In MMA, and more specifically BJJ, there are loads of guys faking black belts, or otherwise faking MMA teaching credentials. A quick google search of Matt Barvo, David Lang, Matt Malice, etc will show the types of things these guys do, but I'll give you the cliffs notes.

They have dubious credentials, they refuse to demonstrate the technique, they prefer to speak and point rather than "do," and their go-to validation is, "yeah, but some of my students have had some success."

Sound familiar? It should. It's Rob Pincus's MO to a T.

In short, I think he avoids demos for a reason. If he could really shoot - or if his students could really shoot they would put something out there to quiet the critics, if for no other reason.

I also think that there is a reason a part of his instructors' program is how to act online. Read through his posts here and you will see many references to him telling his instructors to do this or do that online. Seriously? I get having guidelines for how the program is promoted, but "be a grey man on the forums" et al seem a little... off.

I think Rob Pincus has probably had some classes here and there, he has definitely had some deep thoughts on a lot of things, and he has strategized this quite well. But when the rubber meets the road, we see big, big problems.

To bring it back to the BJJ / MMA thing, I know a lot of people here have trained before. I'm sure many of you have been exposed to the basic Gracie Self Defense stuff, including the very simple headlock escapes taught as part of that system. To you guys, I'm really sorry, but you're about to vomit all over your keyboards, because here is Rob Pincus teaching what he described on facebook as a headlock escape "for the street, not sport."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X6ID...2A278482210277

If this guy thinks the best way to escape a headlock on the street is to first slam your face into the ground and nearly put yourself in scarf hold he's nuts. Or maybe his training is bad. In any case he shouldn't be teaching or ordaining other teachers.