AMMO? (GUN/AMMO SHORTAGES, DISCUSSION HERE)

[26 Inf]

If it’s all you got you use it, and be glad you got it.

A load of 3 dram #7.5s at 50 yards might not even make it thru a heavy shirt, but a take that same shell, ring it, and hit your target at 50 and said target is in for a bad day.

I’m not an elitist cuck that was raised with a silver spoon, we ate what my daddy killed or caught most of the time and I can see my time at M4C is dwindling down to the short rows.

Ryan, I did some experimenting with cut shells but only out of 18" cylinder or improved cylinder barrels on our training shotguns. Haven't shot any through a barrel with screw in choke tubes. What chokes have you shot them through?

At work we had a book on gun shoot wound characteristics by a pathologist who had performed over a 1,000 gunshot wound PM's. There were several examples of the results of what he called 'Hillbilly Slugs' - pretty effective. That's what led me to fool around with some cut 71/2 shot shells.

I could hit metal torsos at 25yds, but all over; at 10 yards precision was much better; I don't know that I would have been hitting at 50 yards. I was just fooling around so didn't really document.

As an interesting note, the pathologist who wrote the text I mentioned earlier also stated that he had never seen a case of secondary injury due to over-penetration from either the standard or 'Hillbilly Slugs.' That's not to say that a slug couldn't go through and through, just that he hadn't seen any cases where there were injuries to others as a result.

[sundance435]

One thing, too about guns & ammo being made now...I would bet the farm that QC levels have dropped dramatically. Especially lower tier stuff that had the most problems anyway.
Were I buying something in the next little while made recently, Id give it a most thorough going before leave the store.

It's been studied across all kinds of product categories. You'd probably lose that bet. It's just access to information, generally anecdotal, at your fingertips creating that impression. You can absolutely still find garbage products if you look, but the mean is much higher and it's much easier to buy quality without putting in a lot of work - guns, ammo, toasters, etc.

[ryan]

Ryan, I did some experimenting with cut shells but only out of 18" cylinder or improved cylinder barrels on our training shotguns. Haven't shot any through a barrel with screw in choke tubes. What chokes have you shot them through?

At work we had a book on gun shoot wound characteristics by a pathologist who had performed over a 1,000 gunshot wound PM's. There were several examples of the results of what he called 'Hillbilly Slugs' - pretty effective. That's what led me to fool around with some cut 71/2 shot shells.

I could hit metal torsos at 25yds, but all over; at 10 yards precision was much better; I don't know that I would have been hitting at 50 yards. I was just fooling around so didn't really document.

As an interesting note, the pathologist who wrote the text I mentioned earlier also stated that he had never seen a case of secondary injury due to over-penetration from either the standard or 'Hillbilly Slugs.' That's not to say that a slug couldn't go through and through, just that he hadn't seen any cases where there were injuries to others as a result.

50 yards is extreme, all deer were killed 25 yards and in. Yes I know it wasn’t proper or probably legal, but then again neither was poaching the kings deer in early October on the national forest... None of the “slugs” exited with the the plastic hull just penetrating the rib cage and the shot perforating the lungs. I don’t remember having to blood trail them far. 28” barrels and modified chokes mostly although I’m sure there were full chokes involved, nothing tactical just meat guns. We never really paid attention to that back then as all we had was the choke in the barrel. It’s a one shot affair, nothing you could reload fast if your life depended on it. I haven’t killed a deer with one in a long time but I won’t hesitate to use one as a nest remover if my cur dog says there’s a squirrel in it.

[Straight Shooter]

It's been studied across all kinds of product categories. You'd probably lose that bet. It's just access to information, generally anecdotal, at your fingertips creating that impression. You can absolutely still find garbage products if you look, but the mean is much higher and it's much easier to buy quality without putting in a lot of work - guns, ammo, toasters, etc.

Could you provide me a couple of those studies? Id love to read them.
Truthfully- Ive already seen it before, Sandy Hook comes to mind. A LOT of bad stuff sold during that era- you can go back on this very forum & read for yourself, along with my & other friends personal instances.
Again- as I said- lower tier stuff is usually the ones who suffer most. As of now, a lot of old stock from last year is still being sold. As it transitions into things made, say from mid-Feb to to later, lets watch & see what happens. In a mad rush to put product out the door, happens every time. Ive been in manufacturing in one way or another for decades- Ive seen it too many times.

[Business_Casual]

It's been studied across all kinds of product categories. You'd probably lose that bet. It's just access to information, generally anecdotal, at your fingertips creating that impression. You can absolutely still find garbage products if you look, but the mean is much higher and it's much easier to buy quality without putting in a lot of work - guns, ammo, toasters, etc.

Yeah, why ruin your business with warranty work six months later.

[themonk]

Happened to me with two BCM BCGs sold during that time. One in a upper and one stand alone. So it can happen to the big boys also. I agree with Sundance, I would not buy anything new for a while.

[MA2_Navy_Veteran]

Could you provide me a couple of those studies? Id love to read them.
Truthfully- Ive already seen it before, Sandy Hook comes to mind. A LOT of bad stuff sold during that era- you can go back on this very forum & read for yourself, along with my & other friends personal instances.
Again- as I said- lower tier stuff is usually the ones who suffer most. As of now, a lot of old stock from last year is still being sold. As it transitions into things made, say from mid-Feb to to later, lets watch & see what happens. In a mad rush to put product out the door, happens every time. Ive been in manufacturing in one way or another for decades- Ive seen it too many times.

Yes, except the mainstream ammunition manufacturers have never (ever) been in a rush to get out ammunition for civilian sales, their main focus is on government contracts, which pretty much plug along at a fixed rate, which as a result leads to a pretty fixed rate of surplus ammunition, with a quality that is determined by computer inspection... so the end result is that newly manufactured ammo has virtually the exact same quality as previously manufactured ammo regardless of the times we're in.

The only thing that really changes (short of being on a war-time footing) is the demand, which currently is running at tremendously stupid-high levels.

[Grand58742]

Ammo seemed to be the issue for me last time. I bought some Blazer brass .45 ACP that I found out later hadn't been crimped at all. I had several bullet setbacks in the first few mags.

[Hank6046]

So while I'm not technically staying with the direction this thread is going. I did order 1.5k rounds on the 10th, before I even realized a frenzy had started and that apparently just shipped. So just over 2 weeks for 55gr to ship.

[jsbhike]

I’ve read that this is a dangerous practice because you’re launching the whole front of the shell, which is a larger diameter than the shot column that the forcing cone/bore/choke are made for, so it produces higher pressure. Never tried it myself; I just use the correct ammo for the critter I’m trying to kill.

I have heard the biggest issue is a part of the "projectile" getting stuck in the barrel which is why break actions are usually "recommended" so it is easier to verify clear between shots.

Not the best option, but if it is the only ad hoc option it is like anything else in being good to know.