Cartel battle in Mexico

[jpmuscle]

Naw.

Crucifixions. Crucifixions solve everything.

Dog pooping on lawn? Crucifixions
Daughter knocked up by some Breaking Bad Vanilla Ice looking dude? Crucifixions
Cut off in traffic? Crucifixions
Telemarketers? Crucifixions
Uppity Street urchin with pants below their ass?
Golgotha grade Crucifixions

Why can nobody else SEE THE RIGHT ANSWER BUT ME?

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[rjacobs]

The number of over-dose related death will be far higher than cancer and AIDS.

and...

I guess I dont see the problem...

Natural selection and all that...

[jpmuscle]

Defunding it by making it legal is the most offensive and outrageous thing i have ever heard. The number of over-dose related death will be far higher than cancer and AIDS. its a total bad idea. Militarizing it is a great idea, The president will have a more direct play in such cases. Cartels are corrupt and depend on the system to keep themselves safe. flushing them is so easy i wonder why its still an epidemic.

Are you obtuse?


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[MountainRaven]

Someone doesn't seem to realize that we've tried a military solution to the problem for about half a century.

[lowprone]

Well, Well, maybe we just didn't try hard enough !!! ( sarc)

That is the argument they use about socialism, correct?

[WillBrink]

Are you obtuse?

Nah, just brain washed an ill informed about reality.

[MountainRaven]

Well, Well, maybe we just didn't try hard enough !!! ( sarc)

That is the argument they use about socialism, correct?

If gun control doesn't work, you obviously need more gun control.

[26 Inf]

A couple of things - I agree (for the most part) with everything MountainRaven posted.

My only concern is the impact that legalization, which would initially, lead to more folks experimenting with drugs, would impact these stats:

How Illicit Drug Use Affects Business and the Economy

Economic Costs

The economic cost of drug abuse in the United States was estimated at $193 billion in 2007,1 the last available estimate. This value includes:

$120 billion in lost productivity, mainly due to labor participation costs, participation in drug abuse treatment, incarceration, and premature death;
$11 billion in healthcare costs – for drug treatment and drug‐related medical consequences; and
$61 billion in criminal justice costs, primarily due to criminal investigation, prosecution and incarceration, and victim costs.

Labor Force

In 2009, the majority (67%) of current drug users aged 18 or older were employed, either full‐time (48%) or part‐time (19%), with the unemployed accounting for 13% and the remaining 21% not in the labor force.

Among full‐time workers aged 18 or older, nearly one in 12 (8%) reported past‐month (current) use of an illicit drug in 2009.3 Unemployed workers were twice as likely – one in six (17%) – to report current drug use in 2009.

Turnover and Absenteeism

From 2002 to 2004, full‐time workers aged 18‐64 who reported current illicit drug use were more than twice as likely as those reporting no current illicit drug use to report they had worked for three or more employers in the past year (12.3% versus 5.1%).

In the same period, full‐time workers who were current drug users were more likely to report missing two or more workdays in the past month due to illness or injury, when compared with workers who were not current users (16.4% vs. 11.0%).

Full‐time workers who were current drug users also were about twice as likely as non‐users to skip one or more days of work in the past month (16.3% vs. 8.2%).

School Performance

Students who are not current marijuana users are more than twice as likely to report an average grade of “A” than those who are current users of marijuana (30.5% vs. 12.5%).

College students who use prescription stimulant medications for non‐medical purposes typically have lower grade point averages and are more likely to be heavy drinkers and users of other illicit drugs. They also are more likely to meet diagnostic criteria for dependence on alcohol and marijuana, skip class more frequently, and spend less time studying.

[jpmuscle]

A couple of things - I agree (for the most part) with everything MountainRaven posted.

My only concern is the impact that legalization, which would initially, lead to more folks experimenting with drugs, would impact these stats:

How Illicit Drug Use Affects Business and the Economy

Economic Costs

The economic cost of drug abuse in the United States was estimated at $193 billion in 2007,1 the last available estimate. This value includes:

$120 billion in lost productivity, mainly due to labor participation costs, participation in drug abuse treatment, incarceration, and premature death;
$11 billion in healthcare costs – for drug treatment and drug‐related medical consequences; and
$61 billion in criminal justice costs, primarily due to criminal investigation, prosecution and incarceration, and victim costs.

Labor Force

In 2009, the majority (67%) of current drug users aged 18 or older were employed, either full‐time (48%) or part‐time (19%), with the unemployed accounting for 13% and the remaining 21% not in the labor force.

Among full‐time workers aged 18 or older, nearly one in 12 (8%) reported past‐month (current) use of an illicit drug in 2009.3 Unemployed workers were twice as likely – one in six (17%) – to report current drug use in 2009.

Turnover and Absenteeism

From 2002 to 2004, full‐time workers aged 18‐64 who reported current illicit drug use were more than twice as likely as those reporting no current illicit drug use to report they had worked for three or more employers in the past year (12.3% versus 5.1%).

In the same period, full‐time workers who were current drug users were more likely to report missing two or more workdays in the past month due to illness or injury, when compared with workers who were not current users (16.4% vs. 11.0%).

Full‐time workers who were current drug users also were about twice as likely as non‐users to skip one or more days of work in the past month (16.3% vs. 8.2%).

School Performance

Students who are not current marijuana users are more than twice as likely to report an average grade of “A” than those who are current users of marijuana (30.5% vs. 12.5%).

College students who use prescription stimulant medications for non‐medical purposes typically have lower grade point averages and are more likely to be heavy drinkers and users of other illicit drugs. They also are more likely to meet diagnostic criteria for dependence on alcohol and marijuana, skip class more frequently, and spend less time studying.

I’d like to think those concerns would inevitably be self correcting over time


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[NWPilgrim]

I think we have proven beyond any doubt that enforcement positively does NOT stop the flow and easy availability of drugs, nor does it prevent massive demand for the drugs.

My brother worked 30 years with interdiction efforts and what they can intercept is a drop in the bucket, even when it is a ship load. Making drugs illegal does not stop people from using them freely. His own first wife became a multi-drug addict while he was out intercepting them! All the laws we had 30 years ago did not prevent her or millions of others from easily obtaining a variety of drugs.

We have even encroached in civil rights in order to try to improve enforcement success and it has very little difference. No knock entries. Property seizures. We fill up our jails and prisons with drug criminals. Yet millions of people still abuse drugs quite openly with little fear of arrest.

I don’t denigrate the efforts of the soldiers and law enforcement who have worked mightily to try to stop the flow of drugs and put away traffickers. Failure is absolutely not from lack of effort and determination and sacrifice. But after 40 years and the drug problem is worse than ever we must acknowledge enforcement does not work to prohibit widespread drug abuse.

We must stop spending billions of dollars on enforcement against drug trafficking, accept it is part of our society and figure out the best way to manage it. And accept that some portion of the population will choose to be destructive of themselves and others no matter the penalty. But drug enforcement will not prevent a noticeable amount. The “good” thing is we are used to spending billions on this problem. If that funding were redirected we might be able limit its impact to the users and perhaps help the fraction willing to get off it. I have ready answers. But I know the current enforcement is not effective.

My daughter had a friend from high school who got involved with meth. Her dad was a superior court judge. After a few years she decided she wanted to get clean. She made the mistake of telling her roommate she was going to cooperate with the police. Her murder scene was so extreme the police refused to release any details to family or the press except to say it was too violent to describe. If drugs were legal she would still have been a meth head, but when she wanted to quit there would be no vengeful criminal dealer to chop her up. The war on drugs has many unintended victims as well as massive financial cost. And we have virtually nothing to snow for it, regardless of microcosm victories if some arrests and seizures. Just too little to make a difference and at a crushing cost.

Time to try another approach, give it 20 years and reassess.