PX4 CC vs CZ P07?

[opngrnd]

Is there a way to give up some trigger refinement for absolute reliability?

[ralph]

You guys might want to go over to the CZ Forum, in their thread about this issue, on the last page, is a reply from David @ CGW, goes by the user name Schemky, read his opinion, in short, it's their belief that it's a non issue...His post will explain.. OP, you might want to put the P07 back on your "buy" list.. had mine out today..outshot my USPc with it... Shopping for IBW holster for it this evening..

[opngrnd]

^Read it. It appears that IF there's an issue, it can be fixed. Since it can be fixed, or you can have the "fix" parts just installed as a precaution, I dont see an issue vs any other firearm that may require tuning. Tune it, test it, and carry it you are content with the results.

[yoni]

Here is the reply from CGW.

"We have had a few P-07/09's that could malfunction when the trigger was not used as intended:

By using the second joint in the trigger finger and applying pressure so the trigger was in a pretty severe lateral "bind", the trigger could twist slightly, the trigger bar could subsequently flex, and under the "stars aligned" scenario, the pistol could fall to half cock. The palm of the hand was actually encroaching on the front grip strap to even get the second joint of the trigger finger to do this. No one rationally uses a firearm like this.

Again, this is operating the pistol in an inappropriate and unorthodox manner. "Normal" operation of the trigger causes no issues. Keep in mind the overwhelming majority of CZ's could not be made to do this, no matter how hard we tried the "unorthodox" method.

So, we examined the phenomenon that can cause this, which lead to one small change to our P-07/09 disconnector. We also designed a new sear pin that will take the lateral movement out of the sear, which will keep the disconnector in constant alignment with the trigger bar. In fact, normal/typical trigger bar "flex" will actually make the new design disco work even better.

The sky is not falling. No one needs to buy any of these parts from us when they are in available. I question why I am even doing this, but, our goal is to continuously improve the CZ lock work, even if someone uses it in an unorthodox manner. Our intent was to begin using these new parts in our shop builds and parts kits with no fanfare.

In closing, I trust my life and my families life to my trusty P-09. "

That was from David at CGW.

Now here is my take, I have about 10,000 rounds all NATO spec or hotter rounds down range with my CZ P07, dry fire count is huge but since I don't count the number of times I dry fire I don't know. But when I am working I will take 5 minutes every hour and dry fire.

I tried to induce the malfunction all day today and was not able to do so.

I don't know what is going on with GJM's pistols, and to be honest I don't really care. I care about my pistols and they work. For me to get worked up over this due to GJM's issues makes as much sense to me as getting worked up if GJM had a flat tire on the way to work. This is not a swipe at GJM, just trying to put this in perspective.

As somebody that used to hunt terrorist for a living and still goes into harms way as a contractor. I stand by my belief that CZ P07/09, is one of the greatest pistols available right now. I am not joking when I say I wished this pistol with a CGW work over was available to me back in the day.

This should put this issue to rest.

[m4brian]

Yoni: Thanks for posting. I DO THINK that the lockwork in the P series leaves a bit of play. I HAD heard of someone's roller going bad, but in participating in the CZ Forum for years and years, I had NEVER heard of a serious issue with the P, then all this fuss. None of my guns drop to half cock even when i try to put off leverage on the trigger. The CGW entry is logical. The thing to note is that the P09 is SUCH a nice gun to shoot. It just makes it easy to make good hits - and when you CGW it and polish the trigger parts, it is VERY sweet. I plan to transition my night gun to the P09 with Olight. Nuff said.

[YVK]

I don't have a particular dog in this fight, so to speak. I've owned a couple of LTT PX4CC and I found them to be stupendous guns. I would've preferred a longer sight radius, they are literally G26 slide mated to G19 frame analogs. Sold because I had to go with smaller guns for EDC.

In regards to P09 I've only one observation. I've shot with GJM enough times for me to forget how many times we've shot together. If David refers to "operating the pistol in inappropriate and unorthodox manner" with GJM in mind, then I don't know what appropriate manipulation of trigger is. GJM has long fingers but that's about it. If David refers to someone else, then OK. Although I don't know who else has been talking to CGW in regards to this issue.

Beyond that I am happy for everyone who found their own happiness and a sweet spot with a PX4, P07/P09, or even a Hi-Point. If it goes boom close to 100%, it is all good.

[SpookyPistolero]

Well, I believe that puts me back where I started...

[BrigandTwoFour]

I own a P07, and I've handled the Px4 quite a bit. The Beretta was the dark horse in my search for a new DA/SA pistol for carry. What decided it for me was the upgradability of the CZ and the difficulty in suppressing the Px4.

Part of the project was to grab a pistol that served as my "do all" from CCW, to bedside, to competition. I thought the CZ did that well.

[m4brian]

True on PX4 for suppressors. If you think it is part of your future, pretty tough road with the PX4 line. Also, look at barrel replacement. I think it is a pretry expensive deal.

Let me ask this. I am way too busy and a tad too lazy to read over 40 pages of the 'p09 failure' thread now on three different sites. Are we really talking about 1 guy (as good as he is) who has a problem on 2 pistols? Or is it more widespread.

Again, the P07 has been out and touted by some 'experts' for almost a decade, and the P09 has been out in force for over 5 years with folks shooting matches and then BLAM - out of no where we get 'failure'.

[ralph]

True on PX4 for suppressors. If you think it is part of your future, pretty tough road with the PX4 line. Also, look at barrel replacement. I think it is a pretry expensive deal.

Let me ask this. I am way too busy and a tad too lazy to read over 40 pages of the 'p09 failure' thread now on three different sites. Are we really talking about 1 guy (as good as he is) who has a problem on 2 pistols? Or is it more widespread.

Again, the P07 has been out and touted by some 'experts' for almost a decade, and the P09 has been out in force for over 5 years with folks shooting matches and then BLAM - out of no where we get 'failure'.

One thing I've noticed, while quite a few people have commented on how they can make their pistols do this while dry firing, I guess the better question would be, how many have had it happen while actually shooting? I've tried to get my P07 to do this, (empty,of course)by sticking my finger benind the trigger, as well as using assorted sizes of punches, to date, I haven't been able to do it.. At this point, I'm going with the subject matter experts at CGW. In GJM's case I don't know what's going on there, I guess he could install the parts CGW has coming out to correct the issue as see if that stops it, if that dosen't work, well, I guess it's time to dump them, and drive on. At this point, I think the issue has been resolved, maybe not to everybody's satisfaction, but,still, it's been resolved..