Do NFA rules apply for SHTF?

**Jammer Six** · 12-15-18, 23:16

I think it's the only right that's unlimited-- the rest are regulated in one way or another. Some of the regulations make good sense, others not so much.

It all seems simple until you literally get down to cases, and try to apply the letter of the law to some weird, twisted case that takes two hours to explain, a flowchart to track and a long list to keep track of the names. Then if you were judge for a day, when you get down to the bottom, you're going to infringe on someone's rights no matter what you decide.

After a couple centuries of appellate action like that, I'm surprised you can still recognize the way the bill of rights is written in current law.

**Moose-Knuckle** · 12-16-18, 05:26

Originally Posted by Esq.

If they can violate the Second Amendment, what's to prevent them from violating the Fourth as well? So while the "entire Bill of Rights" may not have evaporated....parts of it are certainly beginning to make a solid to liquid to gas transformation it would seem.....

The Fourth Amendment has yet to protect me from being sexually assaulted by the TSA in public.

Originally Posted by elephant

Tell that to the NSA! The 4th Amendment blah blah blah! You amendments mean SHIT! That's like saying "shall not be infringed" while putting on your new tactical arm brace.

That is some deep Zen signature line material right there.

Originally Posted by elephant

I'm not that old but I am clearly starting to understand Michael Douglas's character in the movie Falling Down more and more.

**Esq.** · 12-17-18, 12:32

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

The right not to incriminate yourself is unlimited. It was originally written to prevent torture, but has changed to include testimony.

Under some circumstances, you can give it up, but as long as you don't give it up, there are no limits on it.

We might hang you, but you won't have to help us do it with your testimony.

If you have your laptop at the border they can COMPEL you under threat of prison to reveal your password so they can access your information. If a laptop doesn't qualify as "papers" in the modern era...I dunno what is. Complete horse hockey!

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So, they are violating the 4th Amendment in searching laptops in the first place. Then, if you don't incriminate yourself by providing your password, they violate your 5th Amendment protections as well!

Amendment V.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

So, I will stand on the idea that our rights are in the transitional stage from Solid to Liquid to Gas- and Gone as we are watching it happen!

**jpmuscle** · 12-17-18, 12:38

Originally Posted by Esq.

If you have your laptop at the border they can COMPEL you under threat of prison to reveal your password so they can access your information. If a laptop doesn't qualify as "papers" in the modern era...I dunno what is. Complete horse hockey!

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

So, they are violating the 4th Amendment in searching laptops in the first place. Then, if you don't incriminate yourself by providing your password, they violate your 5th Amendment protections as well!

Amendment V.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

So, I will stand on the idea that our rights are in the transitional stage from Solid to Liquid to Gas- and Gone as we are watching it happen!

Title 19 is incredibly invasive. And no they don’t have to compel you to do anything. They can legally dump your PC, Phone, etc.

The 100 mile bit is moot too as it applies to any port of entry so consider that to include international airports within CONUS.

It needs to be constrained I agree.

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**Jammer Six** · 12-17-18, 18:23

I would that one, no, you don't have to give it to them, but you ain't coming home, then. And two, I'd say that information, no matter how personal, is not testimony.

**Mozart** · 01-05-19, 12:54

Originally Posted by elephant

During these times of struggle, lets say a full scale natural disaster that effected most of the lower 48 that caused byproducts like economic troubles, fuel shortages, food shortages, mass looting, would you worry about NFA laws or would you disregard all non-moral based laws all together? Basically, just stick to the 10 commandments.

It would depend. How dangerous is my immediate area?/ How many LEOs are still on the job? After talking with them, how eager do they seem to be about catching non-violent law breakers vs. thieves and vandals and murderers and thugs? Would violating the NFA really help me and mine be safer? or is it just something I'd like to do? etc.

**tc556guy** · 01-07-19, 06:34

I'd be worrying about basic survival issues, not stressing out over chopping my rifle barrel down to a shorter length.
Most LEOs would have the same focus in any enforcement actions they might think of taking.

**Esq.** · 01-07-19, 08:02

Originally Posted by Mozart

It would depend. How dangerous is my immediate area?/ How many LEOs are still on the job? After talking with them, how eager do they seem to be about catching non-violent law breakers vs. thieves and vandals and murderers and thugs? Would violating the NFA really help me and mine be safer? or is it just something I'd like to do? etc.

I think if it were truly SHTF, a belt fed could be of considerable utility. I have little use for most hand held full auto weapons or even short barreled shotguns, SBR's are of some practical utility.....but a good belt fed, crewed by trained operators, is hard to beat for point security or ambush use.