Should I have body armor?

[okie]

Story of my life... I've been in and out of California since 1992. It's been like watching a long slow train wreck.

Saving graces: Most of these stupid rules are unenforceable, and I have friends/family in other states.




I'm now overseas until January, and I hope to move on this sometime early next year...


I'm still thinking BALCS panels with somekind of carrier, like several weeks ago:

https://www.beezcombatsystems.com/BC...ER-SSP-500.htm

I understand the problem of Level III vs. rifle rounds, but I find plates really unappealing vs. soft panels in terms of coverage and flexibility.

MBAV gives you a lot of flexibility. I would probably go MBAV before BALCS.

Of course what probably makes the most sense is getting a concealable vest in a true concealable cut (i.e. not BALCS), and then getting a low profile plate carrier with SAPI plates to wear over it.

That way you have kind of a layered system that's centered around being the gray man as much as possible. Even in a complete meltdown, there are many reasons why you wouldn't want to go around in tac gear. At the very least, someone might want to take it from you.

[rangerdave]

I ordered a set of the Botach level IV plates last week, and got them in today. The multi curve is pretty nice, they're light, and seemed to be constructed well. Hopefully I won't get a chance to test them out

The plates and PC are about 1/3 the weight of the IOTV I used in the army. I've had a Condor PC with soft III inserts for years now, looking to get a Crye SPC soon.

[Bimmer]

MBAV gives you a lot of flexibility. I would probably go MBAV before BALCS.

Of course what probably makes the most sense is getting a concealable vest in a true concealable cut (i.e. not BALCS), and then getting a low profile plate carrier with SAPI plates to wear over it.

I don't want plates, just soft armor, and I want more coverage, so MBAV is out...

Concealability isn't a high priority... I'm medium height/build, so I could easily wear a slick BALCS-carrier under a sweatshirt or jacket and it wouldn't be noticeable from any distance.

[okie]

I don't want plates, just soft armor, and I want more coverage, so MBAV is out...

Concealability isn't a high priority... I'm medium height/build, so I could easily wear a slick BALCS-carrier under a sweatshirt or jacket and it wouldn't be noticeable from any distance.

Even in a slick carrier, BALCS isn't really concealable. Not too far removed from a Vietnam era flak vest, to be honest.

[Bimmer]

Even in a slick carrier, BALCS isn't really concealable.

I figured that, but that'll be fine...

Somebody within spitting distance might notice I'm wearing it, but somebody at across-the-backyard range probably won't figure it out, especially the local trailer trash that I'm most worried about.

[Disciple]

This was entertaining. Naphtali I appreciated your systematic reasoning.

Those who were not proponents of civilian armor: have your thoughts changed at all in the last year?

The perceived need for body armor is entirely related to your level of belief that the collapse of society, even briefly, will happen, that it will affect the security of you and your family, and that having body armor will somehow enhance that security. Personally, I just don't see it. But that's me.

I one hundred percent doubt I will EVER need body armor. I own AR15 body armor.

Barring a flat-out invasion of CONUS, armor is really only useful to non-mil/LEO in offensive situations. I can really only think of one two scenarios where a civilian would need to don body armor in an offensive capacity and they're extremely, extremely unlikely (e.g. you're participating in the next revolution as a three-pee'er or similar and you have to use your own gear). Everything else is either the result of watching too many Hollywood movies or having delusions of grandeur.

If it's TEOTWAWKI I'd say most folks will be defensive for a long long time. Me included. The best offense would be a good defense of trying to stay low, stay sharp, slick, hidden. Not covered in body armor. Save your efforts and funds for spare food, gas, bullets, hardware and tools.

There's nothing inherently wrong with spending money on body armor. However, I can't really imagine a situation where I would be stuck at home with my family taking incoming fire and not able to leave.

Body armor would be so far down the list that I don't even consider it worth talking about.

[Bimmer]

I'm the OP...

Seeing the unrest due to COVID and BLM has convinced me that I really DO want body armor.

Funds are tight right now, but this is now my #1 priority (over buying more guns or ammo, both of which I have a lot of).

[Wake27]

I'm the OP...

Seeing the unrest due to COVID and BLM has convinced me that I really DO want body armor.

Funds are tight right now, but this is now my #1 priority (over buying more guns or ammo, both of which I have a lot of).

OP Tactical has Velocity special threat plates in stock.

[Naphtali]

Someone goes out in his fenced in backyard to walk the dog wearing a plate carrier and a rifle. I thought I heard it all.

Haven't visited this thread in a year but got new plates and wanted to update some obsolete info on ceramic plates.

But first, Re: the above quoted post #104... I guess I could leave it at he's banned from m4c now, as is the "lol" poster in #105 right after. So I guess I'll just rhetorically ask how little advantage from armor and a long gun you'd want in a 5 vs 1 gunfight, if cars full of 4-5 young and almost-certainly armed would-be-looters were repeatedly casing your house 10 feet outside your easily-jumpable fence, when all government and private sector functions were nonexistent for over a week, and even the National Guard was largely unsuccessful in reaching your city.

This was entertaining. Naphtali I appreciated your systematic reasoning.

Those who were not proponents of civilian armor: have your thoughts changed at all in the last year?

On to the update. I got some Hesco U210 special threat plates (think level 3.5) after seeing T.Rex Arms selling the L210s. Spoke at some length with Joe Kawaky at Hesco (very nice and helpful), who founded Hesco's armor division. He said the U210s are what he keeps next to his bed at night out of Hesco's entire lineup.

https://www.hesco.com/products/armor/200-series/

-- 10.25" x 13.25" boron carbide plates are the size I chose
-- Stops everything non-AP less than .308 (e.g. M855A1, 7.62 x 39)
-- 4.7 lbs in the above size
-- 0.56" thick
-- U210 was developed for USSOCOM for a concealable rifle plate a few years ago. Their plate performed the best in trials in all categories (backface deformation etc.), but the associated carrier did not, so another plate was chosen that was slightly inferior due simply to its carrier being preferred.
-- Does not need any maintenance other than x-ray eval / possible replacement after significant blunt trauma
-- Warranty is 5 years but actual usable lifespan is likely decades per Hesco
-- Not on their website, but you can order 6x6" side plates by calling Hesco directly.

Downside is very expensive - $769 per plate.

I got them b/c my old plates were twice as thick (1.1") and much heavier (7.5 lbs) for lesser coverage area (10x12"). They sucked to wear enough, mainly as their bulk interfered w/ my buttstock so much, that I just kept leaving them out, which meant my bedside carrier had no rifle protection in an unexpected situation / middle of the night.

They are about as nice as it gets until someone invents a better performing and affordable armor material than boron carbide. The 0.56" thickness never gets in the way of my buttstock and is unnoticeable. The weight is a bit noticeable, but everything else out there is worse. No .308 protection is a downside, but criminals with long guns are generally carrying shotguns / 5.56 / AK clones. And getting .308+ protection leads to so much more weight and bulk that imo it isn't worth it, unless you're LE or mil (Hesco's armor head prefers these for home defense over their level IV plates).

Obviously this year hasn't changed my thoughts on armor for home defense. With BLM and Antifa busing in rioters into cities of their choice (where none of the rioters live), and residential areas being threatened by hundreds of armed rioters at times, I'd say the "Real men don't wear armor for home defense" crowd, who to me seemed either stupid or lying in 2019, is even more those things in 2020.

[matemike]

I've been looking into it now since the unrest and the fact that I have food and fuel stacked (put my funds to the most useful tools for my party).

I considered the AR500 stuff. I figured something is better than nothing. But I've investigated more and will want quality multicurve plates. Let's just say I'm in the market, but pending funds. I've asked local LE friends for a deal on used department issued stuff, but they all 100% say you don't want to mess with our junk...it's junk!

Again, when I do acquire some I'll feel guilty for having BA and my family not. So I know I'll be making a big purchase. As mentioned above, on my ship, when conducting crowd control during "lockdown" drills I felt guilty for having body armor while 170 of my shipmates did not.