I am pi$$ed off and don't know what to do about it

[turnburglar]

Hey dudes to get this topic a little back on track. Let’s put some real numbers to the issue so that it might make it easier to understand what a buyer could be thinking when they go with a chinese product over an American made one. For the record I am prior service, and actually design products made from 100% American materials. But I totally get why the chinese have a lion share of the market.

For this thought experiment lets use the example I made earlier. Pretend you are a new shooter. You took good advice from the internet and went to your local shooting retailer and came home with a Colt 6920 and a Glock 19. You own absolutely nothing in the way of accessories, but you want to attend a few classes to learn how to use your new firearms and maybe even kit out for your end of the world larping furry games.

First lets kit out your carbine. Red dot, white light, sling. Simple.

China:
Holosun 403 $175
Streamlight HLX $140
Amazon rifle sling $27

total: $342

America
Trijicon MRO $450
Surefire M600 DF $270
Magpie MS1 $65

total: $ 785

China total: $342 vs American total of $785 means the chinese carbine kit is 43% of the cost of the American or $443 cheaper.

Now that our shooter has a decent carbine, lets pretend the next thing they did was purchase a set of magazines for their carbine and handgun. Next step is load bearing gear to hold those magazines. Oh might as well make that a plate carrier because our new shooter doesn’t want to die. So now let us look at the price difference between American and Chinese Nylon.

American
My own companies PC $300
Shotstop GT2 plates x2 $1040

Chinese
My closest chinese competitor $80
Botach lvl 3+ plates x2 $260

Here we show the total for the chinese kit is $340 against the American kit at $1340. A full one thousand dollars more expensive. So far just between the plate carrier and carbine accessories we have almost saved our new shooter $1500. To the average working man that is a significant amount of money saved. It will either lower the barrier of entry allowing more American men to fully appreciate the 2A, or the savings might even be used for further exploring the 2A.

[chuckman]

Hey dudes to get this topic a little back on track. Let’s put some real numbers to the issue so that it might make it easier to understand what a buyer could be thinking when they go with a chinese product over an American made one. For the record I am prior service, and actually design products made from 100% American materials. But I totally get why the chinese have a lion share of the market.

For this thought experiment lets use the example I made earlier. Pretend you are a new shooter. You took good advice from the internet and went to your local shooting retailer and came home with a Colt 6920 and a Glock 19. You own absolutely nothing in the way of accessories, but you want to attend a few classes to learn how to use your new firearms and maybe even kit out for your end of the world larping furry games.

First lets kit out your carbine. Red dot, white light, sling. Simple.

China:
Holosun 403 $175
Streamlight HLX $140
Amazon rifle sling $27

total: $342

America
Trijicon MRO $450
Surefire M600 DF $270
Magpie MS1 $65

total: $ 785

China total: $342 vs American total of $785 means the chinese carbine kit is 43% of the cost of the American or $443 cheaper.

Now that our shooter has a decent carbine, lets pretend the next thing they did was purchase a set of magazines for their carbine and handgun. Next step is load bearing gear to hold those magazines. Oh might as well make that a plate carrier because our new shooter doesn’t want to die. So now let us look at the price difference between American and Chinese Nylon.

American
My own companies PC $300
Shotstop GT2 plates x2 $1040

Chinese
My closest chinese competitor $80
Botach lvl 3+ plates x2 $260

Here we show the total for the chinese kit is $340 against the American kit at $1340. A full one thousand dollars more expensive. So far just between the plate carrier and carbine accessories we have almost saved our new shooter $1500. To the average working man that is a significant amount of money saved. It will either lower the barrier of entry allowing more American men to fully appreciate the 2A, or the savings might even be used for further exploring the 2A.

What's the difference between Chinese nylon and American nylon? Why the discrepancy in nylon cost?

A $220 difference in PCs? Now, like the Justice said about obscenity in 1964, with quality I can't define it but I know it when I see it, and I see the difference in quality between a $80 PC and a $300 PC (or a $200 PC), usually in the details like stitching and tacking, etc.

[titsonritz]

Red Dot Sights Made Outside of China | Optics Trade Debates

[Mysteryman]

Hey dudes to get this topic a little back on track. Let’s put some real numbers to the issue so that it might make it easier to understand what a buyer could be thinking when they go with a chinese product over an American made one. For the record I am prior service, and actually design products made from 100% American materials. But I totally get why the chinese have a lion share of the market.

For this thought experiment lets use the example I made earlier. Pretend you are a new shooter. You took good advice from the internet and went to your local shooting retailer and came home with a Colt 6920 and a Glock 19. You own absolutely nothing in the way of accessories, but you want to attend a few classes to learn how to use your new firearms and maybe even kit out for your end of the world larping furry games.

First lets kit out your carbine. Red dot, white light, sling. Simple.

China:
Holosun 403 $175
Streamlight HLX $140
Amazon rifle sling $27

total: $342

America
Trijicon MRO $450
Surefire M600 DF $270
Magpie MS1 $65

total: $ 785

China total: $342 vs American total of $785 means the chinese carbine kit is 43% of the cost of the American or $443 cheaper.

Now that our shooter has a decent carbine, lets pretend the next thing they did was purchase a set of magazines for their carbine and handgun. Next step is load bearing gear to hold those magazines. Oh might as well make that a plate carrier because our new shooter doesn’t want to die. So now let us look at the price difference between American and Chinese Nylon.

American
My own companies PC $300
Shotstop GT2 plates x2 $1040

Chinese
My closest chinese competitor $80
Botach lvl 3+ plates x2 $260

Here we show the total for the chinese kit is $340 against the American kit at $1340. A full one thousand dollars more expensive. So far just between the plate carrier and carbine accessories we have almost saved our new shooter $1500. To the average working man that is a significant amount of money saved. It will either lower the barrier of entry allowing more American men to fully appreciate the 2A, or the savings might even be used for further exploring the 2A.

You don't need a PC. There are cheaper light options ( Streamlight isn't made in China either FYI) and cheaper sling options. Plenty of used Trijicon and Aimpoint sights available at reduced cost as well. You don't need everything all at once. Here's the reality. If quality gear of any sort is a priority you will find the money. Work more, get another job, sell some shit or simply save up a little longer. The "lower the barrier of entry" is a weak excuse for "I opt for low end shit because I can't be disciplined with my money or time."

I understand what you're trying to illustrate however, there are costs associated with anything. Some people will never own a home, a luxury car or a quality firearm. For those that see any of the above as a priority, they find the means to make it happen. If the Chinese option is so appealing why do you design products that are made in the US and undoubtedly cost more?

[chuckman]

You don't need a PC. There are cheaper light options ( Streamlight isn't made in China either FYI) and cheaper sling options. Plenty of used Trijicon and Aimpoint sights available at reduced cost as well. You don't need everything all at once. Here's the reality. If quality gear of any sort is a priority you will find the money. Work more, get another job, sell some shit or simply save up a little longer. The "lower the barrier of entry" is a weak excuse for "I opt for low end shit because I can't be disciplined with my money or time."

I understand what you're trying to illustrate however, there are costs associated with anything. Some people will never own a home, a luxury car or a quality firearm. For those that see any of the above as a priority, they find the means to make it happen. If the Chinese option is so appealing why do you design products that are made in the US and undoubtedly cost more?

It's a consumer psychology. In our world, this world, we niggle in these details. The reality? I bet when we go to our collective graves not a single one of us outside of perhaps the mil or LE will ever use this stuff as intended, in a SD or HD scenario. The guns and some of the gear for hunting is another matter.

No different than drivers choosing to get something cheaper because it's, well, cheaper, knowing it suits their needs for the moment. And we know car and bike guys invariably move up to better cars and bikes.

[MistWolf]

Recently purchased an RDS for the P365. After weighing the pros and cons of various optics- reliability, durability, controls, footprint, battery life, battery mount, availability, I chose the Trijicon RMRcc. A couple of guys on another forum with a lot of experience with optics in training classes etc., pointed out optics using a battery tray sometimes developed problems with maintaining battery contact. That was one major reason I didn't get a holosun.

[georgeib]

Recently purchased an RDS for the P365. After weighing the pros and cons of various optics- reliability, durability, controls, footprint, battery life, battery mount, availability, I chose the Trijicon RMRcc. A couple of guys on another forum with a lot of experience with optics in training classes etc., pointed out optics using a battery tray sometimes developed problems with maintaining battery contact. That was one major reason I didn't get a holosun.

Don't you lose the ability to cowitness with the adapter plate? That seems like a much bigger weakness than potentially losing the dot due to the battery but still being able to use the irons.

[Inkslinger]

Don't you lose the ability to cowitness with the adapter plate? That seems like a much bigger weakness than potentially losing the dot due to the battery but still being able to use the irons.

To me, cowitnessing RDS to buis is meaningless. If the dot is on, I don’t care where it is in relation to my sights because I’m looking at it not my irons. If you’re taking the time to align all three, you’re defeating to purpose of the RDS.

[georgeib]

To me, cowitnessing RDS to buis is meaningless. If the dot is on, I don’t care where it is in relation to my sights because I’m looking at it not my irons. If you’re taking the time to align all three, you’re defeating to purpose of the RDS.

The purpose of visible irons through your site is as a back up, and also to aid in finding the dot if necessary.

[Inkslinger]

The purpose of visible irons through your site is as a back up, and also to aid in finding the dot if necessary.

I know they’re a back up. If you need them to find the dot, you need more time shooting a pistol with a RDS. The only time you should need to use the irons is as a backup (ie no dot). Like I said, if you’re using both together, you’re doing it wrong. At that point you might as well stick to irons and get rid of the RDS because you’re slowing yourself down trying to make both part of the process.