Drug Shortages, another Canary Keels over....Pay attention....

[lsllc]

So you are very, very wrong. Been down this road more than a few times. And after watching hospice "work", I sure wish there was a better alternative. I'm not trying to normalize anything, suffering is normal, I just wish the option of a humane and pain free as possible death was normal.

But this doesn't seem to be going anywhere so I'm gonna leave it alone.

Sometimes there is no perfect solution but human suffering is a thing. You can’t ask others to take on that burden, even though they are willing right now. Those demons have a way to come back and haunt them later in life.

The burden should be on the individual. Not others’.


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[SteyrAUG]

Sometimes there is no perfect solution but human suffering is a thing. You can’t ask others to take on that burden, even though they are willing right now. Those demons have a way to come back and haunt them later in life.

The burden should be on the individual. Not others’.


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Here again we disagree.

There are people I'm responsible for. Hell I have better options when making sure my dog is taken care of when the good days are over and only bad days ahead of him. It's my responsibility to make sure that it's done right.

When my father was going, I wish I had a similar option where he could say the things that were important and then get a sedative and then have his pain ended there was no reason for him to have to endure that final week trying to just breathe without it hurting. And guess what, when you are in the ICU even if you have the cocktail know how, you can't just walk in and say "Here...drink this."

You should be able to do that, but right now it's considered murder.

So your choices when you find out you are sick and provided a timeline are:

1. Preempt the entire thing and go out in the most pain free method you can provide yourself even if this ends up short changing you weeks or months of tolerable days that you could otherwise spend with family, taking care of final arrangements or simply just living the last days you are able to enjoy.

2. End up in the ICU and / or hospice where you have little or no control over your destiny and being forced to endure every last painful day until you finally die. If you are lucky, you can spend most of that time in a altered state on morphine but honestly that isn't really living either.

It's not what I wanted for my father, it's now what I want when my time comes and it's not what I'd want for anyone I care about.

As for burdens, the burden I carry is I wasn't able to do better for my father. If I could have spared him those last few days, my burden would be much lighter. And when it comes to those I love, who aren't able to do things for themselves anymore, I'd gladly accept that burden. In the last hour, it's the final act of proving you love them by sparing them pointless pain and suffering.

Real hell is watching someone suffer when there is nothing you can do about it to make it better and it's a crime to end their suffering.

[lsllc]

Here again we disagree.

There are people I'm responsible for. Hell I have better options when making sure my dog is taken care of when the good days are over and only bad days ahead of him. It's my responsibility to make sure that it's done right.

When my father was going, I wish I had a similar option where he could say the things that were important and then get a sedative and then have his pain ended there was no reason for him to have to endure that final week trying to just breathe without it hurting. And guess what, when you are in the ICU even if you have the cocktail know how, you can't just walk in and say "Here...drink this."

You should be able to do that, but right now it's considered murder.

So your choices when you find out you are sick and provided a timeline are:

1. Preempt the entire thing and go out in the most pain free method you can provide yourself even if this ends up short changing you weeks or months of tolerable days that you could otherwise spend with family, taking care of final arrangements or simply just living the last days you are able to enjoy.

2. End up in the ICU and / or hospice where you have little or no control over your destiny and being forced to endure every last painful day until you finally die. If you are lucky, you can spend most of that time in a altered state on morphine but honestly that isn't really living either.

It's not what I wanted for my father, it's now what I want when my time comes and it's not what I'd want for anyone I care about.

As for burdens, the burden I carry is I wasn't able to do better for my father. If I could have spared him those last few days, my burden would be much lighter. And when it comes to those I love, who aren't able to do things for themselves anymore, I'd gladly accept that burden. In the last hour, it's the final act of proving you love them by sparing them pointless pain and suffering.

Real hell is watching someone suffer when there is nothing you can do about it to make it better and it's a crime to end their suffering.

Dude, I get it and I see it every day. Suffering, dying, it’s all part of living. Dogs aren’t human beings. Dogs are property.

You’re suggestion “giving him a cocktail and going to sleep” IS murder is correct. And your suggestion is to shift that act, that death into the conscious of another human being, which is not only selfish as f*ck, it’s unethical and creates a whole litany of psychological problems for those responsible for designing, producing, and dispensing said cocktail.

Look, I’m sorry your dad suffered. I truly am. I’ve seen the same thing too many times to count. I completely get it. But you’re coming off as the idealist who wants to “do something” even if it’s wrong. You’re like the “Everytown” groups who want all guns banned unless there are zero murders with guns, despite unintended consequences. I get it, you’re emotional. It sucks. It hurts. But suffering is part of life and what you’re asking for is others to violate their oaths and their ethics, and you’re certain this is the only way, consequences for others be damned.


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[lsllc]

Here again we disagree.

There are people I'm responsible for. Hell I have better options when making sure my dog is taken care of when the good days are over and only bad days ahead of him. It's my responsibility to make sure that it's done right.

When my father was going, I wish I had a similar option where he could say the things that were important and then get a sedative and then have his pain ended there was no reason for him to have to endure that final week trying to just breathe without it hurting. And guess what, when you are in the ICU even if you have the cocktail know how, you can't just walk in and say "Here...drink this."

You should be able to do that, but right now it's considered murder.

So your choices when you find out you are sick and provided a timeline are:

1. Preempt the entire thing and go out in the most pain free method you can provide yourself even if this ends up short changing you weeks or months of tolerable days that you could otherwise spend with family, taking care of final arrangements or simply just living the last days you are able to enjoy.

2. End up in the ICU and / or hospice where you have little or no control over your destiny and being forced to endure every last painful day until you finally die. If you are lucky, you can spend most of that time in a altered state on morphine but honestly that isn't really living either.

It's not what I wanted for my father, it's now what I want when my time comes and it's not what I'd want for anyone I care about.

As for burdens, the burden I carry is I wasn't able to do better for my father. If I could have spared him those last few days, my burden would be much lighter. And when it comes to those I love, who aren't able to do things for themselves anymore, I'd gladly accept that burden. In the last hour, it's the final act of proving you love them by sparing them pointless pain and suffering.

Real hell is watching someone suffer when there is nothing you can do about it to make it better and it's a crime to end their suffering.

Dude, I get it and I see it every day. Suffering, dying, it’s all part of living. People suffer every day without killing themselves. Suffering is natural.

Being responsible for somebody, means you should have the power to determine if their psychological or physiological condition is terminal and that you can order somebody else to kill them for you? That’s awfully bold.

Dogs aren’t human beings. Dogs are property.

Your suggestion “giving him a cocktail and going to sleep” IS murder is correct. And your suggestion is to shift that act, that death into the conscious of another human being, which is not only selfish as f*ck, it’s unethical and creates a whole litany of psychological problems for those responsible for designing, producing, and dispensing said cocktail.

Look, I’m sorry your dad suffered. I truly am. I’ve seen the same thing too many times to count. I completely get it. But you’re coming off as the idealist who wants to “do something” even if it’s wrong. You’re like the “Everytown” groups who want all guns banned unless there are zero murders with guns, despite unintended consequences. I get it, you’re emotional. It sucks. It hurts. But suffering is part of life and what you’re asking for is others to violate their oaths and their ethics, and you’re certain this is the only way, consequences for others be damned.

Finally, if your suggestion were legal, guess what? There would still be suffering. Human bodies react differently to the same substances. Because of malabsorption or differences in receptors, the same lethal cocktail that puts one person quietly to death may make the next person go into status epilepitcus. How much peace would it bring to watch your loved one seize, foam at the mouth, and choke to death on their own secretions?

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[jpmuscle]

Live in America:

Swaths of folks are pro-abortion

People still balk at dignified self termination.


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[lsllc]

If somebody really wants to die badly enough, they can just call the Times saying they have information that could lead to the arrest of the Clintons. Problem solved, problem staying solved.


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[SomeOtherGuy]

the same lethal cocktail that puts one person quietly to death may make the next person go into status epilepitcus. How much peace would it bring to watch your loved one seize, foam at the mouth, and choke to death on their own secretions?

If somebody really wants to die badly enough, they can just call the Times saying they have information that could lead to the arrest of the Clintons. Problem solved, problem staying solved.

Funny funny, but likely a crueler death than "status epilepitcus."

It's easy enough to see the problems with euthanasia, but our hospice system is not reliably good and many people suffer in US hospice too. My extended family currently has a very elderly person (over 90) who was given two weeks to live, more than a year ago, due to multiple untreatable conditions. Still in hospice, still alive, not conscious for more than a few minutes a day and not doing well in those few minutes. I hope her unconscious dreams are better, or nothing. How long will that go on? Is that humane? It's not exactly a fine and peaceful way to go.

[lsllc]

Nope hospice certainly isn’t perfect. But it’s not murder either. Oftentimes hospice, and subsequent quality, is only as good as those running that particular agency. I’ve seen some pretty bad hospice agencies.

With all the complaining about an admittedly imperfect system, has anybody actually done anything to improve things? Or is this just venting? What can be done short of legalizing murder?


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[Hmac]

Dude, I get it and I see it every day. Suffering, dying, it’s all part of living.

Jesus....I'm glad I don't have your job. Where do you work...Botswanna?

You’re suggestion “giving him a cocktail and going to sleep” IS murder is correct. And your suggestion is to shift that act, that death into the conscious of another human being, which is not only selfish as f*ck, it’s unethical and creates a whole litany of psychological problems for those responsible for designing, producing, and dispensing said cocktail.

It won't happen that anyone will ever be required to give another person that cocktail. And you're assuming that those who would be willing to do so see it as murder and not the greater kindness, and that they will suffer some kind of psychological devastation. That's not universally the case.

[lsllc]

Jesus....I'm glad I don't have your job. Where do you work...Botswanna?





It won't happen that anyone will ever be required to give another person that cocktail. And you're assuming that those who would be willing to do so see it as murder and not the greater kindness, and that they will suffer some kind of psychological devastation. That's not universally the case.

The thing is, right now they may not but there is a surprising number of people who work such jobs early in life that have a significant change of heart later in life after they mature. As I said earlier, it isn’t uncommon for abortion nurses to later need counseling for assisting with abortions. Additionally, mothers of aborted children often express deep regrets later in life and seek help to deal with their despair.


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