(COVID/ETC CONTENT HERE) China Locks Down 11 Million in Wuhan,

[teufelhund1918]

Thats as crazy as all the hospitals freaking out that have zero covid19 patients either in their hospital or in their county...

I read one guys post somewhere that said his hospital is REQUIRING everybody that walks in the door(any door that is and for any reason) be masked up... He said(at the time) they had no reported cases in their county and as far as he knew pretty much nobody had come into the hospital with covid19 symptoms. He said it was a crazy over reaction and he was more worried that WHEN(not if) they had cases actually show up and then actually needed the PPE, that there would be none available.

Just now on Fox News was a NYC EMT talking about not being able to take heart attack victims to the hospital or to even treat them. They are pretty much left to die now. Well, I hope all those New Yorkers at the beach are enjoying themselves while they spread this around to other people.

[mack7.62]

Just now on Fox News was a NYC EMT talking about not being able to take heart attack victims to the hospital or to even treat them. They are pretty much left to die now. Well, I hope all those New Yorkers at the beach are enjoying themselves while they spread this around to other people.

The USNS Comfort was supposed to have 1,000 beds available for non Covid-19 patients.

[Alpha-17]

Your analogies are over the top and unrealistic. The 1st amendment doesn’t guarantee the right for a church to remain open during times of national emergency. It guarantees the right of the INDIVIDUAL to practice the religion of his choosing free from government persecution. You can worship at home during this crisis. My church is putting out services online.

Just what do you think a quarantine should be? You clearly have not an bit of medical knowledge so you don’t address the massive public danger from COVID19 in your argument. To allow mass gathering is to continue to spread the disease! The constitution allows for common sense. You should too.

Heavyweight

Oh, so there would be no 1st Amendment violations if all Church buildings were permanently closed? Or all religious assemblies greater than 10 people were banned? After all, it's just an "INDIVIDUAL" right, and banning anything but an individual's right to worship isn't unconstitutional. right? Somehow, I think not. That's no different than banning the sale and production of guns and ammo. "We're not banning guns, that's an individual right, we're just keeping companies from producing them and them being transferred! You can have a gun at home!"

Disagree with my analogies all you want, but they aren't as over the top and unrealistic as you think.

And you're right, I'm not an expert on medical matters. I'm a historian. My expertise tells me to be very, very skeptical of ANYTHING governments do in a crisis. The powers we give them are not so easily abandoned after the crisis.

Apologies for my snippy comments. I don’t know what your level of medical expertise is. I just disagree with your comments. And my closing line might be taken out of context. I agree that the Bill Of Rights should be absolute. I just disagree with your interpretation of the 1st amendment. I will try to be more civil in my responses.

Take care....Heavyweight

It's all good. We all get heated in debates from time to time.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Does anyone know where the "except in times of emergency" clause is in the Constitution? I am having trouble finding it.

Thank you, amen. Your other post was also spot on.

I have not read the Christian Bible in a long time, but I seem to remember that Jesus taught us to be humble, put others before ourselves, and be reasonably respectful of the government. He also had a great bit of disdain for wealth and for commercial operations occurring in the temple.

Perhaps, maybe, plausibly, this pastor loves Jesus so much and is concerned that he will be unable to help you and I love Jesus over the internet and telephone. Or, maybe, perhaps, megachurches are businesses, and the good pastor relies on a physical congregation for his income and livelihood. Maybe, he expects that the tax-exempt status makes this business model somehow unique from a bar.

Weren’t we talking trash on Muslims doing dumb stuff that promotes disease in the name of their religion a few pages back?

Jesus also told his disciples to gather in his name and urged them to carry weapons because they would be counted as outlaws for believing in him. I can play the cherry-pick game as well.

I couldn't care less if this was a megachurch or a micro church. I don't know this pastor from Adam. It doesn't matter if he's a saint or the biggest scumbag alive, arresting him for keeping the church doors open for anyone that wanted to come is a straight-up totalitarian act. Weren't we talking trash on China being totalitarians in the name of safety a few pages back?

Gov requests social distancing to prevent community spread as to greatly reduce burden on the health system, and pastor of the church refuses.

Now what? Ask pretty please? Fine the church? Conclude it's their Const Right to congregate and if that leads to X number of additional cases, that's the costs of it? Wait 'till the all leave and station a few LEOs in front to tell them to go home? Arrest the pastor for public endangerment?

Ideally, I'd say nothing, or ask pretty please. Since this isn't an ideal world, and dumb stuff happens, require attendees to fill out a liability form waiving them from seeking medical care in case they come down with Corona. Is that realistic? Probably not, but I'm as much for individual accountability as I am respecting the Constitution and freedom of religion.

This is my take on it. We could avoid the entire issue if the church was CHOOSING to meet via non-interpersonal methods. In this case, I believe the below applies:
Good choices made freely that don't endanger others>dangerous freedom>no freedom.

Oh, definitely, though we do need to consider outliers; those that don't have internet, or understand how to use it to meet/hear a sermon. Some people also feel the need for fellowship and need some personal interaction. We should accept that while their choices aren't the best, they still have the right to make them without government reprisals.

36 sailors on the USS Theodore Roosevelt have Covid19. The captain wants the whole crew off the Aircraftcarrier.

bUT iTs iNeffecTive As A BIo wEAPON!!! NOt eVrYonE diEs!!!

Whole Aircraft Carrier ineffective. Not one shot fired. Nothing to see here

According to the article I saw this morning, that number is up to 83 sailors testing positive. Not good at all.

[Alpha-17]

Sorry for the double post, but I am shocked this hasn't been posted yet.

https://abc7.com/officials-engineer-...PjwKFHs-EwQ1Ec

Prosecutors: Engineer deliberately ran train off tracks in attempt to smash the USNS Mercy

SAN PEDRO, LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- An engineer deliberately ran a train off the tracks at high speed near the Port of Los Angeles in an attempt to crash into the USNS Mercy hospital ship, prosecutors say.

The Pacific Harbor Line train derailed Tuesday, running through the end of the track and crashing through barriers, finally coming to rest about 250 yards from the docked naval ship.

Federal prosecutors allege train engineer Eduardo Moreno, 44, of San Pedro intended to hit the ship, saying he thought it was "suspicious" and did not believe "the ship is what they say it's for.'"

The train crashed into a concrete barrier at the end of the track, smashed through a steel barrier and a chain-link fence, slid through one parking lot and then a second lot filled with gravel and hit a second chain-link fence. It came to rest after passing under a ramp leading to the Vincent Thomas Bridge. The train remained in that position Wednesday.

No one was injured in the derailment, but the train leaked fuel that required a hazmat response.

Authorities say Moreno admitted to crashing the train intentionally, but said he did not plan it out in advance. It is believed that he acted alone.

He allegedly made statements to a CHP officer that included "You only get this chance once. The whole world is watching. I had to. People don't know what's going on here. Now they will."

Officials say video from inside the train's cab shows Moreno holding a lighted flare during the incident.

Moreno has been charged with one count of train wrecking, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office. The charge carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in federal prison.

The Mercy arrived at the Port of Los Angeles this weekend.

The Navy hospital ship was brought in to handle non-coronavirus patients, to help ease the burden of local hospitals that are surging with COVID-19 cases.

The ship has about 1,000 hospital beds, with some 800 active-duty doctors, nurses and medical staff on board. It is expected to stay in Los Angeles at least until September or until it is no longer needed.

When I first saw that yesterday, I immediately thought it had to be an April Fool's Day joke, but nope; somebody tried to ram the Mercy with a freaking train. WTF?

[teufelhund1918]

The USNS Comfort was supposed to have 1,000 beds available for non Covid-19 patients.

They are leaving them on scene and not transporting them to hospitals. They will attempt some life saving techniques, but after a short time, if it fails, they leave them there. If it is in public, they leave the body with NYPD.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/nyc-em...-combat-triage

So I wonder if they will include all these type of collateral damage deaths in with the Chinese Virus deaths.

Please note that I initially put up the wrong link. I corrected it here.

[26 Inf]

. Our society has reached a new point based on circumstances where individual freedom is secondary to collective essential need. Interesting way this has turned out.

What do you think, good or bad?

Yeah it’s Kind of weird, I thought it one time there was a form of government that individuals freedoms and liberties were bypassed or ignored for the greater good of the country. Oh well I am sure I will think of it later.

Would universal conscription/selective service in numerous countries fit your example?

Living in society is a balancing act with the collective rights/well-being sometimes pulling against individual rights.

My desire to listen to loud music on my patio while grilling, is tempered by the right's of my neighbors to not be forced to listen to the entire Eat A Peach CD at 150db.

I don't see anything particularly onerous or difficult about the concept in general.

[85cucvtom]

They are leaving them on scene and not transporting them to hospitals. They will attempt some life saving techniques, but after a short time, if it fails, they leave them there. If it is in public, they leave the body with NYPD.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nyc-...ft-home-2020-4

So I wonder if they will include all these type of collateral damage deaths in with the Chinese Virus deaths.

In my area, it is classified as a "corona virus related death" per the local health department. I heard it directly from my source at the health department.

[1168]

They are leaving them on scene and not transporting them to hospitals. They will attempt some life saving techniques, but after a short time, if it fails, they leave them there. If it is in public, they leave the body with NYPD.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nyc-...ft-home-2020-4

So I wonder if they will include all these type of collateral damage deaths in with the Chinese Virus deaths.

I didn’t follow the URL, but this may be normal. In many areas out-of-hospital cardiac arrest patients get treated until a preplanned time limit is reached, and then if the Paramedics are convinced that the patient is not viable, and some checklist items have been met, we transfer custody of the body to the cops or coroner, give them a report, and return to service so we are available for our next patient.

Obviously if the patient’s condition changes or if the Paramedic thinks that the patient would benefit from transport, they get transported.

There are also circumstances when resuscitation attempts would be so futile that it is not attempted. Or there is a DNR.

What I’m getting at is this may not be COVID 19 related.

[Life's a Hillary]

Glad the Georgia governor just now realized you can spread this while being asymptomatic. How can someone in charge of an entire state be so ignorant on basic knowledge of this disease?

[26 Inf]

They are leaving them on scene and not transporting them to hospitals. They will attempt some life saving techniques, but after a short time, if it fails, they leave them there. If it is in public, they leave the body with NYPD.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nyc-...ft-home-2020-4

So I wonder if they will include all these type of collateral damage deaths in with the Chinese Virus deaths.

From the story:

The Tuesday memo told paramedics to still try and resuscitate cardiac arrest patients as usual, but changed its guidance on what to do if they can't restart the heart at the scene.

If paramedics fail to get a pulse, they should turn the body over to the New York Police Department or its body removal team, the new directive said.

If paramedics on-scene with de-fib equipment and drugs cant get you started, I doubt there is a good chance for survival - kind of agree with Ramairthree on these matters.