A10, almost scrapped, new updated versions coming

[WillBrink]

Little known in fact the A10 has taken out an Abrams, one of the few Abrams that was destroyed.

Since it's a kinetic energy weapon a lot of the modern armor countermeasures don't neutralize it very well. (Unlike heat, which can be very effectively neutralized by several different methods)

The A10 is also one of the last remaining tactical (attack/cas/fighter) aircraft which is not fly by wire and in fact has redundant cable capability in case of failure of the already redundant hydraulics circuits.

China/Russia armor and conventional type threat is the new pivot and is influencing our tactics and training. It's not accidental that the A10 continues to get funding. Yes f-16s and newer can do amazing things, dog fight better, and have better standoff cas capability.

But my understanding is the A10 can still fight/fly even in a heavy emp/jamming environment. Which has yet to be proven with the wonder planes. Russia especially has invested heavily an electronic warfare.

I personally am glad it's still available as an arrow in the quiver, albeit a unique one.

FF incident?

[crusader377]

The A-37 Dragonfly was a nifty little (emphasis on "little") attack aircraft that proved quite useful in Vietnam. And had a postwar career in the USAF with the "OA-37" designation. Not sure if it would be useful or survivable in today's environment, but it didn't take up much ramp space

I think a modernized A-37 or aircraft similiar in concept would work for low intensity conflicts. Especially if you gave it a modern weapons like the 250lb Small Diameter bomb and Hellfire capability. Those weapons combined with 2.75 inch rockets which now there are guided versions and a 20 or 25mm gun would give it the capability to kill practically all targets in the battles that the U.S. has been fighting for the last 20 years.

I think the main benefit of a low cost aircraft like the A-37 is it saves airframe hours and operating costs of your high end fighters. An F-16 or now F-35 is overkill for conflicts like Afghanistan and Iraq and why use an aircraft that cost $30,000 per hour to fly, like the F-35, when an aircraft like a modernized A-37 can do the CAS role for a tenth of the cost.

Plus another advantage of an A-37 type plane is you could readily export it to our allies and it is cheap and easy to operate. For example, I don't think it was wise to sell F-16s to Iraq and I certainly don't think a modern fighter aircraft would be appropriate to give countries like Afghanistan.

[chuckman]

I think a modernized A-37 or aircraft similiar in concept would work for low intensity conflicts. Especially if you gave it a modern weapons like the 250lb Small Diameter bomb and Hellfire capability. Those weapons combined with 2.75 inch rockets which now there are guided versions and a 20 or 25mm gun would give it the capability to kill practically all targets in the battles that the U.S. has been fighting for the last 20 years.

I think the main benefit of a low cost aircraft like the A-37 is it saves airframe hours and operating costs of your high end fighters. An F-16 or now F-35 is overkill for conflicts like Afghanistan and Iraq and why use an aircraft that cost $30,000 per hour to fly, like the F-35, when an aircraft like a modernized A-37 can do the CAS role for a tenth of the cost.

Plus another advantage of an A-37 type plane is you could readily export it to our allies and it is cheap and easy to operate. For example, I don't think it was wise to sell F-16s to Iraq and I certainly don't think a modern fighter aircraft would be appropriate to give countries like Afghanistan.

...or F-14s to Iran. Now, those AC are dwindling because they can't get new parts, and the ones we sold lacked 'our' avionics and the Mac Daddy Phoenix, but still...

[Grand58742]

The A-37 Dragonfly was a nifty little (emphasis on "little") attack aircraft that proved quite useful in Vietnam. And had a postwar career in the USAF with the "OA-37" designation. Not sure if it would be useful or survivable in today's environment, but it didn't take up much ramp space

Honestly, Vietnam brought out some really unique solutions in light CAS/COIN aircraft even if some were WWII designs. You think about the variety of aircraft that were put out during that time and what they accomplished. Everything from the AT-6 Texan, A-26 Invader, A-1E, A-37, OV-10 and, of course, the AC-47, AC-119 and AC-130.

That's been the problem of the USAF to not look back at past conflicts and find what "works" especially in regards to the low intensity fights we tend to get into. Too much "do a lot of everything, excel at nothing, max the price because of it" mentality.

[Grand58742]

I think a modernized A-37 or aircraft similiar in concept would work for low intensity conflicts. Especially if you gave it a modern weapons like the 250lb Small Diameter bomb and Hellfire capability. Those weapons combined with 2.75 inch rockets which now there are guided versions and a 20 or 25mm gun would give it the capability to kill practically all targets in the battles that the U.S. has been fighting for the last 20 years.

I think the main benefit of a low cost aircraft like the A-37 is it saves airframe hours and operating costs of your high end fighters. An F-16 or now F-35 is overkill for conflicts like Afghanistan and Iraq and why use an aircraft that cost $30,000 per hour to fly, like the F-35, when an aircraft like a modernized A-37 can do the CAS role for a tenth of the cost.

Plus another advantage of an A-37 type plane is you could readily export it to our allies and it is cheap and easy to operate. For example, I don't think it was wise to sell F-16s to Iraq and I certainly don't think a modern fighter aircraft would be appropriate to give countries like Afghanistan.

Funny you mention that...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textron_AirLand_Scorpion

Provided, it's way bigger than an A-37, but the design does look promising.

[chuckman]

Honestly, Vietnam brought out some really unique solutions in light CAS/COIN aircraft even if some were WWII designs. You think about the variety of aircraft that were put out during that time and what they accomplished. Everything from the AT-6 Texan, A-26 Invader, A-1E, A-37, OV-10 and, of course, the AC-47, AC-119 and AC-130.

That's been the problem of the USAF to not look back at past conflicts and find what "works" especially in regards to the low intensity fights we tend to get into. Too much "do a lot of everything, excel at nothing, max the price because of it" mentality.

Funny-not-funny (ironic?) they are still talking about the newest version of the OV-10 and AT-6 for the new ISR/armed overwatch AC. 50-something years after being proven in SE Asia.

[Grand58742]

Funny-not-funny (ironic?) they are still talking about the newest version of the OV-10 and AT-6 for the new ISR/armed overwatch AC. 50-something years after being proven in SE Asia.

Different AT-6 in Vietnam. As in the WWII era T-6 Texan trainer they armed for for the Southeast Asian countries.

The latest is the one based on the T-6 Texan II trainer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beechcraft_T-6_Texan_II

[pinzgauer]

FF incident?

I'll try to find the reference, but it was the only Abrams knocked out in desert storm or one of those time frame actions. Friendly fire.

I've watched a lot of the a-10 videos from gun runs in that era, and it's compelling to watch.

They got to where they were giving the people time to vacate the vehicle before they zapped it. Or more accurately, brrrrrrpppped it.

[crusader377]

Funny you mention that...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textron_AirLand_Scorpion

Provided, it's way bigger than an A-37, but the design does look promising.

Sounds like a perfect aircraft for low intensity warfare. Costs about 20 million and operating costs only 10-20% that of modern front line fighters.

Obviously not a replacement for your high end planes but why send a 100 million dollar F-35 to bomb insurgents in a permissive airspace.

[WillBrink]

Just out as to the many upgrades: