If SBRs Became Title 1 Firearms, What Would Your Practical Carbine Be...?

[docsherm]

12.5" BCM

https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-...2%20vtrx11.htm

I had ok need of those and was lucky to get 2.5 moa..... At best. Total crap.

[docsherm]

For me and my experience in a close quarters environment, a pinned 14.5” is about as long as I want to go (comfortably). Even going to a 16” w/ muzzle device changes how I maneuver the gun in a hall/room setting. By the same token, going to a 12.5” is even better than 14.5”. Then you start throwing suppressors on each of these and the changes magnify. With my chosen suppressor (Ops Inc), I can keep OAL down below a pinned 14.5” OAL WITH suppressor attached.

On the long range side of the equation, 12.5” is a sweet spot in velocity compared to other SBR lengths for reaching out to my perceived max effective range of 400-500 yds. Yes this can, and has, been done with 10.5 and 11.5 as well, but I like the extra velocity and dwell time of the 12.5” for reliability. Doc has also mentioned that 12.5” stabilizes the heavy bullets better as well.

To me it’s just the right bridge between both worlds.

You hit the nail on the head.

John Noveske did a ton of research on different barrel lengths with MK262 and the 12.5 was the shortest that you can go and still get good stabilization on the round.

[Clint]

Interesting choice.

What makes this your top selection?

The 9" barrel or the APC piston setup or the combo of the two?

Probably would pick up a B&T APC223 with sidefolding stock and 9" barrel. Course you can get them now with a sidefolding brace.

[SteyrAUG]

Can someone explain the logic of how this would be beneficial? A 12.5" barreled AR, with a 1.5" muzzle device, bringing the overall length out to roughly 14" when you can already own a 16" overall length barrel with pinned flash hider. Saving 2 inches? Maybe if it had a folding stock but otherwise it's kind of pointless.

For me, it would only be practical as a suppressed weapon. I could also see people choosing it to have a 5.56 home defense weapon, but again I'd really want a suppressor. Indoor performance concerns of a 5.56 from a short barrel, even 7", really won't amount to much.

[RobertTheTexan]

Can someone explain the logic of how this would be beneficial? A 12.5" barreled AR, with a 1.5" muzzle device, bringing the overall length out to roughly 14" when you can already own a 16" overall length barrel with pinned flash hider. Saving 2 inches? Maybe if it had a folding stock but otherwise it's kind of pointless.

Do you prefer a 14.5 over a 16” AR?
For me. I’m not measuring 12.5+ a FH vs. a pinned 14.5. My SBR’s have cans, or they are in the process of all having can. So it’s not a 14” OAL SBR vs. a 16” OAL 14.5. By the time I add my current suppressors which are a bit over 7.6” long; then yes imo, 2” does matter if I’m clearing my dashboard in my truck or clearing a door jam or cabinet in my house. I’m sure there are plenty who say the 12.5 is too long and have mentioned shorter barrels and this part of that part and whatnot- some of which has zero bearing on performance of the weapon. But as it has been mentioned by people who have shot a lot bad people in the face with the self same 12.5 we are talking about - it is the best compromise of short barrel maneuverability, reliability, and ballistic performance. That pretty much seems like the trifecta right there.


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[RobertTheTexan]

Weight is something else I’m considering too and the SS is a few ounces heavier than CL...probably won’t matter that much, but it’s still there. Any thoughts on whether dimpling the barrel (Marvin Pitts) would change accuracy?

ETA: All accuracy requirements that I’m talking about here are with heavy OTM rounds. I don’t expect 55gr FMJ to meet 1-1.25 MOA. And truthfully, I’d be ok with 1.5 MOA

ETA2: it will also be suppressed

You can call Marvin and see what you’ll shave off. With a 12.5 barrel that isn’t a bull type barrel I do not think the weight savings would be that substantial. Marvin can ball dimple a barrel like nobodies business though. I have a heavy profile SS 308 barrel that I had him ball dimple for a project/build I’m doing for a friend. I honestly wish I had him re-profile the barrel instead. I was a little concerned about whip and accuracy because it was stupid accurate when it came to me and I did not want to risk any of that - so I went the dimple route. Here are a few pics... not to derail or hijack the thread, but just for you to see the level of craftsmanship Marvin is at. So I don’t think I’ve lost any accuracy and well... this will no doubt be the most unusual build I have ever done. And I’m not finished yet.

[RetroRevolver77]

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[grnamin]

I learned the hard way that 10.5 and below overheat easily. Suppressor-sized Midwest Industries handguards don't help with heat abatement even with that much distance from the barrel.

[Moose-Knuckle]

DD has always had good port sizes. That was a slam on people who say stuff is over gassed when they don't understand why it is gasses like that.

Ah hah, yeah that went right over my head lol. I never committed to memory the DD hate that was spun up a few years back concerning their gas port sizing. I always dismissed it as the Wolf Gold and PMC Bronze crowd complaining that their cheap range fodder wouldn't cycle properly. Thanks again for your input.

[SteyrAUG]

I had ok need of those and was lucky to get 2.5 moa..... At best. Total crap.

So does that actually make PCCs more practical in terms of accuracy?