Average shooter vs "Trained shooter"

[grizzlyblake]

Seems popular to tell potential new shooter dudes to go buy a basic M4 type carbine and learn to deal with the stock furniture and iron sights, maybe add a cheap G2X light, and then later on, maybe once they're good enough they can buy an Aimpoint PRO or something.

But the guns that guys set up for their wives or kids are generally using the latest nice stuff to make them easier to shoot, and thus easier for the shooter to hit what they want. FF rails, LW barrels, good triggers, furniture, etc.

It's a funny rite of passage that guys here want to make new shooters earn their stripes on the old stuff before they're approved to get the good stuff or something.

[Doc Safari]

Well Doc...........you finally pushed me over the edge...........6720 is pending shipment to my FFL.........I've been Coltified........Thank You

You will love it. When firing offhand at 100 yards toward a teeny tiny target so small you have to really hold granite-like steady you will say, "Who needs an M4 Government profile barrel?"

[WillBrink]

So my question is, what do the people posting these statements think is the right amount of range time/rounds down range to qualify them to professionally report on what is GTG or NOT? What amount makes you no longer average?
.

I'd only add that time at the range does not seem to reflect knowledge at all. I know guys who have been in the gym for 40 years, who still don't have a clue what they're doing. While they may have more knowledge than the newbie walking into the gym for first time, much of that knowledge if anything is counter productive. We all know those guys who live at the range, been there for decades, still don't know chit and hand out bad advice. There's also those guys who have BTDT, but that does not make them gun guys per se. Point being, no simple or single metric will "...qualify them to professionally report on what is GTG or NOT?"

Many do of course just repeat what they have read elsewhere at places like Arf.com and such, much of it wrong. Me, I try to pay attention to the SMEs. What makes an SME on any topic appears to be a combination of factors.

Perhaps the better Q is, what makes someone an SME or knowledgeable person to qualify them to professionally report on what is GTG or NOT, in this case ARs

Simple range time would not quality if in my view.

[flenna]

I'd only add that time at the range does not seem to reflect knowledge at all. I know guys who have been in the gym for 40 years, who still don't have a clue what they're doing. While they may have more knowledge than the newbie walking into the gym for first time, much of that knowledge if anything is counter productive. We all know those guys who live at the range, been there for decades, still don't know chit and hand out bad advice. There's also those guys who have BTDT, but that does not make them gun guys per se. Point being, no simple or single metric will "...qualify them to professionally report on what is GTG or NOT?"

Many do of course just repeat what they have read elsewhere at places like Arf.com and such, much of it wrong. Me, I try to pay attention to the SMEs. What makes an SME on any topic appears to be a combination of factors.

Perhaps the better Q is, what makes someone an SME or knowledgeable person to qualify them to professionally report on what is GTG or NOT, in this case ARs

Simple range time would not quality if in my view.

We used to have a saying at the PD about the 20 year veteran who is ROD (retired on duty). They don’t have 20 years experience they have 1 year of experience 20 times.

[MegademiC]

Seems popular to tell potential new shooter dudes to go buy a basic M4 type carbine and learn to deal with the stock furniture and iron sights, maybe add a cheap G2X light, and then later on, maybe once they're good enough they can buy an Aimpoint PRO or something.

But the guns that guys set up for their wives or kids are generally using the latest nice stuff to make them easier to shoot, and thus easier for the shooter to hit what they want. FF rails, LW barrels, good triggers, furniture, etc.

It's a funny rite of passage that guys here want to make new shooters earn their stripes on the old stuff before they're approved to get the good stuff or something.

Because a gun for a new shooter is for a new shooter.
A gun for for the wife is for both of us. Its set up mainly for her (stock position, light placement), but its similar to other one so either of us can use either gun efficiently.

[T2C]

…...

Many do of course just repeat what they have read elsewhere at places like Arf.com and such, much of it wrong. Me, I try to pay attention to the SMEs. What makes an SME on any topic appears to be a combination of factors.

Perhaps the better Q is, what makes someone an SME or knowledgeable person to qualify them to professionally report on what is GTG or NOT, in this case ARs

Simple range time would not quality if in my view.

I agree. A lot of people regurgitate what they've read on the internet without any practical or teaching experience. Some people have a lot of experience with one category, field experience, competition or teaching and they don't drive outside their lane and post as if they have experience in all three categories.

Someone who applies what they teach and spends serious time keeping their skill level at an acceptable level may expend anywhere from 500 rounds to 2,000 rounds or more per month. If you send 6,000 to 24,000 rounds down range each year, you should have an idea about what needs lube, maintenance intervals and what breaks at what interval.

It's hard to reap solid information off the internet. Verify what you read on the internet through other means and sources.

[Zane1844]

I shoot on public land. I see people there almost every time. I'm the only person who actually brings targets...most people shoot the ground, bottles, pots and even lettuce.

Most shooters know as much about their weapon as people do their cars- very little. Nor do they plan to use their weapon seriously.

[T2C]

I shoot on public land. I see people there almost every time. I'm the only person who actually brings targets...most people shoot the ground, bottles, pots and even lettuce.

Most shooters know as much about their weapon as people do their cars- very little. Nor do they plan to use their weapon seriously.

Where do the rounds go when they ricochet off the ground?

[Circle_10]

Seems popular to tell potential new shooter dudes to go buy a basic M4 type carbine and learn to deal with the stock furniture and iron sights, maybe add a cheap G2X light, and then later on, maybe once they're good enough they can buy an Aimpoint PRO or something.

But the guns that guys set up for their wives or kids are generally using the latest nice stuff to make them easier to shoot, and thus easier for the shooter to hit what they want. FF rails, LW barrels, good triggers, furniture, etc.

It's a funny rite of passage that guys here want to make new shooters earn their stripes on the old stuff before they're approved to get the good stuff or something.

I think different standards are applied to "enthusiast" gun owners, vs someone who will only end up using a firearm in a life or death situation.
In the latter case, making the gun as easy and effective to use is a priority.

In the former case, if you want to be a serious "gun guy" which most of us on this site probably fancy ourselves to one degree or another, I think there is an unspoken expectation that a "gun guy"
needs to master all aspects of their weapon, to include basic things like iron sights and milspec triggers, vs cutting one's teeth on "crutches" like red dots and fancy rails right at the outset. Once you've put in your time on the basics though, than you've "earned" enough gun guy cred to move on to the luxury items.

I know that in my case, I do a lot of iron sight shooting still, due in part I think to a personal bias that while optics are an important enhancement, "real" rifleman can get shit done with irons if need be.
The American tradition of "rugged individualism" has a lot to do with our reverence for individual marksmanship. The concept of a lone rifleman, who knows his rifle, knows his craft, and can make his hits, taps into something in our psyches.

[1168]

Where do the rounds go when they ricochet off the ground?

Into a 90 degree swath of National Forest. Which is one of several reasons one SC’s public ranges is on the chopping block. And also one of the reasons I only shoot there if the weather discourages Bubba.