It's 2023, what role does the shotgun fill today?

[Entryteam]

As far as "moving" goes, it goes with any gun. The diameter of the bullet is just that, and I can bet, even just across the room, shooting shot at an attacker lays down a larger diameter than a bullet.

Besides, say you and another are going to rob someone's home. You both creep through the door or window, you hear a loud boom, your buddy goes down hard. Are you really going to hang around to see just how many shot shells your opponent actually has to shoot at you? I damn sure would not.

Anything short of a magic wand is going to have it's drawbacks, but if I had to choose between taking a round from a bullet, or taking a load of buckshot, I'm going with the bullet. YMMV.

Shotguns are great... until you have to make a precision shot. THEN... you're screwed. I've NEVER asked a person who mentions shotgun slugs and their "accuracy".... if they'd be comfortable with that accuracy in a hostage rescue situation with their own child as the hostage... and having to make that shot. Not a one. The carbine is just SO much superior in every way, with the possible exception of just pure carnage, to the shotty. Shotties are to be used for breaching, bean bags, and ducks. Leave the fighting to the rifles.

[BobinNC]

Shotguns are great... until you have to make a precision shot. THEN... you're screwed. I've NEVER asked a person who mentions shotgun slugs and their "accuracy".... if they'd be comfortable with that accuracy in a hostage rescue situation with their own child as the hostage... and having to make that shot. Not a one. The carbine is just SO much superior in every way, with the possible exception of just pure carnage, to the shotty. Shotties are to be used for breaching, bean bags, and ducks. Leave the fighting to the rifles.

Ah, the invincible strawman argument. Of course every scenario has to include a postulated event that can't be met by whatever firearm you have deemed as inadequate for that task, as if that's the only one you have at hand.

Most intelligent people view shotguns as an adjunct or complement to a AR15, not a replacement. Shotguns have their place, and their recognizable limitations, just like AR15 carbines have their place.

My household is armed with AR15's, PCC's, Handguns, Shotguns, and a LR rifle setup to do damage at ranges AR's can only dream of.

What's wrong with being well-prepared, and having weapons that cover all eventualities??

[Defaultmp3]

What's wrong with being well-prepared, and having weapons that cover all eventualities??

Because most people don't have time to train with multiple platforms enough to achieve a high level of proficiency with all of them. There is also the cost of properly outfitting a gun and all the associated gear in order to run it, which could be spent on many other things, whether it be enablers (NVGs, thermals, drones, commo, etc.), stockpiling (food, ammo, fuel, etc.), sustainment (generators, solar, etc.), or a variety of other things that may have nothing to do with being well-prepared.

Point being, there is an argument that one can be very well-prepared without having a shotgun of any kind. This of course depends on what one's idea of preparedness is, but it's certainly not a crazy idea to be without a shotgun and still be considered well-prepared for most eventualities.

[Entryteam]

Ah, the invincible strawman argument. Of course every scenario has to include a postulated event that can't be met by whatever firearm you have deemed as inadequate for that task, as if that's the only one you have at hand.

Most intelligent people view shotguns as an adjunct or complement to a AR15, not a replacement. Shotguns have their place, and their recognizable limitations, just like AR15 carbines have their place.

My household is armed with AR15's, PCC's, Handguns, Shotguns, and a LR rifle setup to do damage at ranges AR's can only dream of.

What's wrong with being well-prepared, and having weapons that cover all eventualities??

I wasn't aware that this was an argument. The thread asks a question and solicits an opinion. I offered mine.

Is that not what we do here in this case?

[B Cart]

Shotguns are great... until you have to make a precision shot. THEN... you're screwed. I've NEVER asked a person who mentions shotgun slugs and their "accuracy".... if they'd be comfortable with that accuracy in a hostage rescue situation with their own child as the hostage... and having to make that shot. Not a one.

In this mock scenario of yours, what do you mean by precision shot? Assuming headshot? Is this at normal real-life home defense distances or is your child somehow being held hostage by a bad guy 100+ yards away?

If you're talking about real life CQB/in-home scenarios where one might actually use a shotgun, I would feel plenty confident making a headshot with slugs from my 1301T with red dot from 5-25 yards. And i wouldn't even consider myself a big shotgun guy.

A shotgun with good slugs matched to the gun can easily shoot 1-2" groups at 25 yards (mine definitely does), and a lot of people shoot tight groups way past that. So, i'm not sure what kind of shooters you're asking, but within normal home defense distances, a fairly competent shooter should be able to "make a precision shot" with a shotgun. If they can't, it's probably a training issue.

Now, if you're planning on shooting bad guys holding hostages outside of your home at further distances, obviously there are better tools for that job. (And for the record, my go-to home defense gun is a short barrel rifle, not my 1301T. But I chose the rifle for things like quicker follow up shots and increased ammo capacity, and not because of any lack of accuracy.

[Entryteam]

In this mock scenario of yours, what do you mean by precision shot? Assuming headshot? Is this at normal real-life home defense distances or is your child somehow being held hostage by a bad guy 100+ yards away?

If you're talking about real life CQB/in-home scenarios where one might actually use a shotgun, I would feel plenty confident making a headshot with slugs from my 1301T with red dot from 5-25 yards. And i wouldn't even consider myself a big shotgun guy.

A shotgun with good slugs matched to the gun can easily shoot 1-2" groups at 25 yards (mine definitely does), and a lot of people shoot tight groups way past that. So, i'm not sure what kind of shooters you're asking, but within normal home defense distances, a fairly competent shooter should be able to "make a precision shot" with a shotgun. If they can't, it's probably a training issue.

Now, if you're planning on shooting bad guys holding hostages outside of your home at further distances, obviously there are better tools for that job. (And for the record, my go-to home defense gun is a short barrel rifle, not my 1301T. But I chose the rifle for things like quicker follow up shots and increased ammo capacity, and not because of any lack of accuracy.

Uhhh.... 1-2" 'groups'... at 25 yards... is no measure of accuracy, and 2 inches can mean the hostage and not the hostage taker gets shot. But y'all do y'all and I'll do me. We all judge these things through the lenses of our own experiences, and that ain't gonna change. Sorry I ruffled feathers.

[B Cart]

Uhhh.... 1-2" 'groups'... at 25 yards... is no measure of accuracy, and 2 inches can mean the hostage and not the hostage taker gets shot. But y'all do y'all and I'll do me. We all judge these things through the lenses of our own experiences, and that ain't gonna change. Sorry I ruffled feathers.

No feathers ruffled, just trying to understand your mock child hostage scenario, and your lack of clarity on how you measure accuracy.

As for your accuracy statement, the head A-zone (CNS hit zone) on standard training targets is 2" by 5", which is typically how shooters and instructors judge whether a shot is accurate. Not sure how you're training, but when I shoot and train with my pistol, shotgun, or AR, I (and instructors) judge the accuracy of the shots on A-zone hits. A 1-2" group at 25 yards with a shotgun is consistently in that head A-zone. If that's not good enough for your standards, then yep, you do you.

I can easily shoot 1/5 MOA groups all day long at 100 yards with any of my competition PRS rifles, but we're talking about real life here, and most people aren't carrying around precision guns to end hostage situations. If that's what you do for work, then good on ya, keep prepping for those child hostage shoots. A shotgun will never be the best tool for that job, (nobody is arguing that it is), but a competent shooter can definitely make accurate enough headshots at reasonable ranges with one.

[BobinNC]

I wasn't aware that this was an argument. The thread asks a question and solicits an opinion. I offered mine.

Is that not what we do here in this case?

ar·gu·ment
/ˈärɡyəmənt/
noun


a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

[1168]

The difference between slugs and 5.56 in this scenario are largely a matter of preference.

In military hostage rescue, a carbine is used. The shotty is a breaching tool, and the breacher also has a carbine. In LE, well it depends. The team I was with uses carbines/pistols for lethal, shotguns are for less-lethal only. Department-wide, actually. But there are examples of successful hostage shots with shotguns elsewhere, not that I’d choose one on purpose.

I have no kids.

[Defaultmp3]

The difference between slugs and 5.56 in this scenario are largely a matter of preference.

While I would largely agree with that statement, I think a big problem with getting is that it seems that not many people run slug-only load-outs, it seems, but instead seem to favor buckshot primarily, and running a select slug when the extra precision is needed. The problem with that is now you need to run that drill with the slug select, which will realistically burn up quite a few seconds, which could be a serious problem if the opponent is using someone as a human shield rather than simply as a hostage for negotiation. There is also the question of what the sights are zeroed for; I would think that most folks would zero for the slug, but if they're primarily seeing it used a buck and zero for that, it could also be problematic.