I am pi$$ed off and don't know what to do about it

[Mysteryman]

The reality for me is that I would have bought the Holosuns I bought even if they were the same price. Clearer glass, better reticles, and just as tough. To me, the price offset the idea that I might have to send it back for a replacement, as the earlier units seemed to have a higher failure rate than the newer higher end ones. As things stand right now, the lower price is a nice bonus, even more so when you consider that an $8-900 T2 has a ton of complaints regarding insufficient brightness. Happy to start buying American or Swedish when they starting making better red dots.

Again, personal preferences that have zero impact on performance or reliability. Not sure who you're talking to about T2's and brightness settings, more than useable in bright sunlight.

I think that the phrase “assembled in” as opposed to “made in” should be considered a clue that our well respected Swedish and American favorites may be sourcing some components from a place that would upset some commenting in this thread.

Yes Leupold uses Chinese guts, in fact they claim their glass comes from the same source as "all major optic producers" then make the statement that some comes from Europe, some domestically, and some from "Asia". Hot tip Asia is a continent not a nation, same for Europe. Those are bullsh*t verbal judo moves to not say " we get our sh*t from China." If they were sourcing Swaro glass or Hensoldt glass or Schott glass they would sing it loud and proud. If they were sourcing Japanese glass they would sing it loud and proud. Their intentional avoidance of their source and lack of pride in where they source their glass speaks volumes. I don't buy Leupold either. They're honestly over priced lower end optics. They rank up there with Remington (old Remington). Living off their name while offering mediocre products at best.

Trijicon is made in the USA and they do source Japanese glass.

MADE IN THE USA
The vast majority of Trijicon products, including ACOG®, VCOG®, RMR®, RMR®cc SRO®, MRO®, Iron Sights, MGRS®, CCAS®, Thermal Optics, Ventus™, Mounts, and Archery Sights are designed, engineered, machined, and assembled at our facilities in Wixom, Michigan or Auburn, California, and are therefore 100% Made in the USA.

Our AccuPoint® riflescopes are assembled in the USA but have significant components purchased in Japan. Our Huron®, Ascent®, Tenmile®, and Credo® riflescopes are manufactured in Japan according to our design and testing requirements. All Trijicon products are designed in Michigan and have the same stringent quality processes applied to them, including the Science of Brilliant™ testing methodology. All Trijicon products are backed by our limited lifetime warranty. Each product is marked according to its origin.

Aimpoint is 100% Swedish made.

We have two production facilities, located in Malmö and Gällivare in Sweden. The production meets the highest quality standards and Aimpoint is certified in accordance with ISO 9001:2015.

Not sure what companies you're referring to that are " sourcing some components from a place that would upset some commenting in this thread." Regardless, buying a product with the LEAST amount of communist components still makes it a better option than one with more.

Yep.

Most large companies source parts from China, some exclusively for certain things.

You can thank the communists on Wall St. in NYC for that reality.

Absolutely correct. The West sold their soul to the Chinese in the name of profit.

[turnburglar]

Chyna body armor is getting really good.

I have owned 3 different sets at this point and I can say whoever Botach rebrands from really has their act together.

I have been wearing Lvl 3 UHMWPE plates for over a year now and its incredible the amount of mobility and durability they have. At only 3.5#'s it barely feels like armor at all. I just got a set of the 3+ that are rated for M855 and cant wait to make a carrier for them. They are a pound or more heavier than the UHMPWE plates but they can stop M855. I am thinking about running the 3+ plate in front and then the lighter UHWMPE plate in the back? That might be a cool set up.

For reference:

Botach 3+: 4.5#'s, 0.8" thick, $140

Shot Stop GT2's: 3.7#'s, 0.6" thick, $520


Sure; I still want a GT2 cause thats some gucci tier kit, but damn if this chyna armor isn't close for a working man's price.

[Adrenaline_6]

Lol...he thinks cleaner glass and a reticle that many people with astigmatism claim is cleaner and not as blobby is a "personal preference"...comical actually.

I guess in his eyes, all you guys buying NF and S&B are absolutely wasting your money.

[Mysteryman]

Lol...he thinks cleaner glass and a reticle that many people with astigmatism claim is cleaner and not as blobby is a "personal preference"...comical actually.

I guess in his eyes, all you guys buying NF and S&B are absolutely wasting your money.

RDS are not meant for precision, they're good enough fast enough. A bloomed dot is no different than the blob/comma astigmatism folks see. The benefit is speed. I don't see holosun offering a vastly better image over the guys who invented the red dot sight or other known brands. Again.... Glass clarity makes no difference if you use the sight properly. TARGET FOCUS BOTH EYES OPEN.

As for NF and S&B. There's definitely a certain amount of "paying for the brand" but no one has ever complained they got too much quality when buying them. At distance and/or magnification aberrations and optical distortion is a problem. Light transmission through multiple elements is also a concern. More importantly, the repeatability for W/E adjustments is critical. These are the features you pay for with such brands. Different animal than an RDS.

[georgeib]

RDS are not meant for precision, they're good enough fast enough. A bloomed dot is no different than the blob/comma astigmatism folks see. The benefit is speed. I don't see holosun offering a vastly better image over the guys who invented the red dot sight or other known brands. Again.... Glass clarity makes no difference if you use the sight properly. TARGET FOCUS BOTH EYES OPEN.

As for NF and S&B. There's definitely a certain amount of "paying for the brand" but no one has ever complained they got too much quality when buying them. At distance and/or magnification aberrations and optical distortion is a problem. Light transmission through multiple elements is also a concern. More importantly, the repeatability for W/E adjustments is critical. These are the features you pay for with such brands. Different animal than an RDS.

You're just being contrary. Yes, RDS are meant for speed, but they're also meant for shooting in awkward positions, and yes, they're meant for precision.

[Mysteryman]

You're just being contrary. Yes, RDS are meant for speed, but they're also meant for shooting in awkward positions, and yes, they're meant for precision.

Really? A 2/3/4/6/9 MOA dot is meant for precision?? Wow, I guess the precision shooting crowd is doing it wrong then. The speed of the RDS is apparent from all positions and the accuracy is greater than irons. They are not meant to be pinpoint precise, they excel inside 100 metres.

[Mysteryman]

You're just being contrary. Yes, RDS are meant for speed, but they're also meant for shooting in awkward positions, and yes, they're meant for precision.

Really? A 2/3/4/6/9 MOA dot is meant for precision?? Wow, I guess the precision shooting crowd is doing it wrong then. The speed of the RDS is apparent from all positions and the accuracy is greater than irons. They are not meant to be pinpoint precise, they excel inside 100 metres.

[Dan_B]

The RDS choice topic is interesting, the personal insults and line item refute, not so much.

My experience with red dots on handguns is limited. The only type I own is the RMR. I’m going to try the Holosun based on what I have read, and test it out for myself. I found the feedback from people with first hand experience helpful.

[georgeib]

Really? A 2/3/4/6/9 MOA dot is meant for precision?? Wow, I guess the precision shooting crowd is doing it wrong then. The speed of the RDS is apparent from all positions and the accuracy is greater than irons. They are not meant to be pinpoint precise, they excel inside 100 metres.

Ok, how many MOA is a front iron sight on a pistol? And how many MOA does a typical RDS equiped pistol shoot?
For that matter, what about sight alignment with irons?

[Mysteryman]

Ok, how many MOA is a front iron sight on a pistol? And how many MOA does a typical RDS equiped pistol shoot?
For that matter, what about sight alignment with irons?

With some rough math (equation) a set of trijicon HD sights have a front post width of 0.144" which works out to about 19MOA. The HD XR front sight comes in at .122" and works out to about 16 MOA. Most RDS users I know typically use a 2-3 MOA dot on their pistols. I suspect your angle here is that RDS are significantly more accurate than irons and on pure numbers yes they are. At common handgun distances it doesn't make a difference.

As for being accused of being smart. Being smart isn't a crime so I've never been accused of it. Some people say I'm smart, but that's all relative to the environment.