It goes against all my fundamentals of accuracy and control!

[26 Inf]

Jerry Miculek could be a Metal Gear Solid boss if he wanted

Jerry is always having fun.

[SteyrAUG]

All I know is that when I was watching it and he said thenline I used as a thread title a swig of Islay scorch got snorted into my nose. Talk about clean8ng out the sinuses. And I could not stop laughing to the point of tears. Not sure why I found it so funny but I did.

Because it's stunningly accurate and best describes this goober device which we now have to defend because some nutjob used one in a crime and now the goobermint is rewriting the rules and the definitions.

[Straight Shooter]

Because it's stunningly accurate and best describes this goober device which we now have to defend because some nutjob used one in a crime and now the goobermint is rewriting the rules and the definitions.

DAMN I hate the FUDD shit out in the gunworld...and people who dont shoot..wont shoot..buying CRAP to put on guns they think will let them have a higher level of skill without the time & effort & work & expense that goes into really learning to shoot. I HATE the f-in bumpstocks, Im GLAD they are going away..even tho I know what else its gonna lead to..but TO HELL with a bump stock.

[Wildcat]

....this goober device which we now have to defend because some nutjob used one in a [major] crime and now the goobermint is rewriting the rules and the definitions.

Seriously, I think we all wondered how long it would stay gubmint approved.

I'm not a bumpstock guy either, but Jerry's demo really just makes me more suspicious about what was really used in the Vegas massacre.
I've been guessing that if the slidefire stocks were actually used as part of the attack, they were likely modified in some way. The rate of fire was sustained and mostly regular (though slower than an AR on Full).

You can see Jerry having the hammer drop before the bolt closes and have to cycle the rifle manually. I would expect this to be a common stoppage with the goober device.
I can also imagine some mods to reduce that problem.
Perhaps the investigators wouldn't be able to distinguish a modified bump-stock from a normal one.

Either way. Banning junk does not fix a people problem. It perpetuates banning more stuff when the problem doesn't magically go away.

[SteyrAUG]

DAMN I hate the FUDD shit out in the gunworld...and people who dont shoot..wont shoot..buying CRAP to put on guns they think will let them have a higher level of skill without the time & effort & work & expense that goes into really learning to shoot. I HATE the f-in bumpstocks, Im GLAD they are going away..even tho I know what else its gonna lead to..but TO HELL with a bump stock.

The problem is not bumpstocks, the problem is new definitions of what constitutes a "machine gun" and the potential for everything from binary triggers to any other drop in trigger to be declared a machine gun even though it is anything but a machine gun. The end result could be mandatory 10 lb. triggers for any "sporting approved" semi auto rifle.

So even though they are stupid, we have to defend this shit because bump stocks, hellstorm triggers and everything else are LEGAL given the stated definitions of what constitutes a machine gun. We also need to realize that they will always be coming at us any way we can and we can't lose our resolve simply because some wacko shot up a school and the "optics" look bad.

We need to be absolutists in the same way "never again" abortion advocates are. If they can demand the right to end a life because it is "their body, their rules" then we can use the same damn criteria for "defense of life, our body - our rules" and F all of them who don't agree.

But sadly we seem to lack the cohesiveness, resolve and strategy of the "pro abortion" crowd and they don't even have a specified amendment guaranteeing them anything. That is how pathetically we compare to that group.

I really wish the NRA would just circle the wagons, attack the sporter clause as unconstitutional and fight it all the way up to the supremes. We do that, we could get rid of nearly every law that decides which guns are ok and which guns are not. In fact we could scrap the entire 1968 GCA if we really wanted to accomplish something.

Mail order guns didn't kill Kennedy or King, crazy people did. The entire FFL thing has become a joke, they want to require anyone who sells a gun to be a FFL but they pretty much make sure most people who want to sell a gun won't qualify to get a FFL.

But gun owners either want to see AR-15s banned, because they give hunters a bad name OR there are even gun owners who want to see AR-15s become Title II firearms in some misguided effort to keep them from being totally banned.

We need real representation in both the government and the NRA. The NRA needs to grow a pair on go on the offensive. Do you know what kind of state of the art NRA shooting centers there would be in every state if they didn't have to spend their revenue on lobbying politicians to do their jobs? Do you know how many more people would be NRA members if they actually got something like a state of the art shooting center in their state?

Hell the NRA could even put that money back into gun safety programs and try once again to get things like Eddie Eagle Gun Safety classes back in the classroom and just maybe there would be a lot fewer firearms related tragedies.

I have listened to the issue since I was a kid in the mid 70s and it is astonishing to me how much has changed and what has been lost. Christ even John Kennedy was a stronger advocate of second amendment rights than either Bush (41) or Bush (43).

But we need a group like the NRA to do this the right way because we aren't going to riot in the streets, loot property or burn down buildings like our opponents. We just have ZIP for leadership.

[Straight Shooter]

The problem is not bumpstocks, the problem is new definitions of what constitutes a "machine gun" and the potential for everything from binary triggers to any other drop in trigger to be declared a machine gun even though it is anything but a machine gun. The end result could be mandatory 10 lb. triggers for any "sporting approved" semi auto rifle.

So even though they are stupid, we have to defend this shit because bump stocks, hellstorm triggers and everything else are LEGAL given the stated definitions of what constitutes a machine gun. We also need to realize that they will always be coming at us any way we can and we can't lose our resolve simply because some wacko shot up a school and the "optics" look bad.

We need to be absolutists in the same way "never again" abortion advocates are. If they can demand the right to end a life because it is "their body, their rules" then we can use the same damn criteria for "defense of life, our body - our rules" and F all of them who don't agree.

But sadly we seem to lack the cohesiveness, resolve and strategy of the "pro abortion" crowd and they don't even have a specified amendment guaranteeing them anything. That is how pathetically we compare to that group.

I really wish the NRA would just circle the wagons, attack the sporter clause as unconstitutional and fight it all the way up to the supremes. We do that, we could get rid of nearly every law that decides which guns are ok and which guns are not. In fact we could scrap the entire 1968 GCA if we really wanted to accomplish something.

Mail order guns didn't kill Kennedy or King, crazy people did. The entire FFL thing has become a joke, they want to require anyone who sells a gun to be a FFL but they pretty much make sure most people who want to sell a gun won't qualify to get a FFL.

But gun owners either want to see AR-15s banned, because they give hunters a bad name OR there are even gun owners who want to see AR-15s become Title II firearms in some misguided effort to keep them from being totally banned.

We need real representation in both the government and the NRA. The NRA needs to grow a pair on go on the offensive. Do you know what kind of state of the art NRA shooting centers there would be in every state if they didn't have to spend their revenue on lobbying politicians to do their jobs? Do you know how many more people would be NRA members if they actually got something like a state of the art shooting center in their state?

Hell the NRA could even put that money back into gun safety programs and try once again to get things like Eddie Eagle Gun Safety classes back in the classroom and just maybe there would be a lot fewer firearms related tragedies.

I have listened to the issue since I was a kid in the mid 70s and it is astonishing to me how much has changed and what has been lost. Christ even John Kennedy was a stronger advocate of second amendment rights than either Bush (41) or Bush (43).

But we need a group like the NRA to do this the right way because we aren't going to riot in the streets, loot property or burn down buildings like our opponents. We just have ZIP for leadership.

Bump stocks arent THE problem..but they are A problem. All the other esoteric stuff you mentioned is beyond any of our control. I too, have followed this gun stuff since at least 1975, been an off/on NRA member for decades until stopped for good many years ago. What the NRA and/or politicians should do is: THEIR F-in jobs. I cannot help that they dont. As far as JFK...I dont believe for a second he would be 2A now....he would have evolved into a typical anti-gun demonrat right along with the rest of his party & family.
I do realize of course..the leeway it gives anti-gunnners by banning even something as retarded as a bumpstock. Somehow/someway the gun community & manufacturers are gonna have to police themselves of this FUDD bullshit, even to a neutral person, it makes us look stupid, as Ive already been told.
I aint on the NRA bandwagon right now, Ive got a lot of questions about some things going on with them of late. Yes, these internal differences like ours now are detrimental. But I just cannot & wont stand up for something I know to be needless redneck FUDD bullshit.
About two months ago at my last outdoor range trip in TN..had a cop friend of mine tell me this story: He and his young daughter, father and a couple more were shooting, when a van pulls up. They sit for awhile. The sliding door opens up & some fat f-in redneck with an AK47 climbs out..literally just points downrange and lets it rip against his hip. Gun empties..he says "hell yeah"! & gets back in, they drive off, leaving this cop & family slackjawed. Well-guess what? NOW WE GOT NEW RANGE RULES..NO..RAPID..FIRE signs all over..because of that.
As I say on here all the time- we are, in fact, our own worse enemy.

[JoshNC]

The problem is not bumpstocks, the problem is new definitions of what constitutes a "machine gun" and the potential for everything from binary triggers to any other drop in trigger to be declared a machine gun even though it is anything but a machine gun. The end result could be mandatory 10 lb. triggers for any "sporting approved" semi auto rifle.

So even though they are stupid, we have to defend this shit because bump stocks, hellstorm triggers and everything else are LEGAL given the stated definitions of what constitutes a machine gun. We also need to realize that they will always be coming at us any way we can and we can't lose our resolve simply because some wacko shot up a school and the "optics" look bad.

We need to be absolutists in the same way "never again" abortion advocates are. If they can demand the right to end a life because it is "their body, their rules" then we can use the same damn criteria for "defense of life, our body - our rules" and F all of them who don't agree.

But sadly we seem to lack the cohesiveness, resolve and strategy of the "pro abortion" crowd and they don't even have a specified amendment guaranteeing them anything. That is how pathetically we compare to that group.

I really wish the NRA would just circle the wagons, attack the sporter clause as unconstitutional and fight it all the way up to the supremes. We do that, we could get rid of nearly every law that decides which guns are ok and which guns are not. In fact we could scrap the entire 1968 GCA if we really wanted to accomplish something.

Mail order guns didn't kill Kennedy or King, crazy people did. The entire FFL thing has become a joke, they want to require anyone who sells a gun to be a FFL but they pretty much make sure most people who want to sell a gun won't qualify to get a FFL.

But gun owners either want to see AR-15s banned, because they give hunters a bad name OR there are even gun owners who want to see AR-15s become Title II firearms in some misguided effort to keep them from being totally banned.

We need real representation in both the government and the NRA. The NRA needs to grow a pair on go on the offensive. Do you know what kind of state of the art NRA shooting centers there would be in every state if they didn't have to spend their revenue on lobbying politicians to do their jobs? Do you know how many more people would be NRA members if they actually got something like a state of the art shooting center in their state?

Hell the NRA could even put that money back into gun safety programs and try once again to get things like Eddie Eagle Gun Safety classes back in the classroom and just maybe there would be a lot fewer firearms related tragedies.

I have listened to the issue since I was a kid in the mid 70s and it is astonishing to me how much has changed and what has been lost. Christ even John Kennedy was a stronger advocate of second amendment rights than either Bush (41) or Bush (43).

But we need a group like the NRA to do this the right way because we aren't going to riot in the streets, loot property or burn down buildings like our opponents. We just have ZIP for leadership.

As usual Steyr, you are spot on. Words mean things, legal definitions mean things. Bump stocks are moronic. I would never own one and saw the writing on the wall when they came to market. But they are NOT MGs and no amount of legal words nothing can make them MGs. Accepting this wholly inaccurate and illegal reclassification is not okay. It sets the precedent for very bad things to come.

We must go on the offensive against 922(d)(3) and 922(r). Heller gives us the teeth to do so. The second amendment has NOTHING to do with sporting. The 1968 gca and 922(o) are illegal, unconstitutional. We must stop being apologists, must stop compromising.

And while we are talking about it, I recently listened to the Primary and Secondary podcast “airing of grievances “ (episode 177) and Caleb Giddings brings up some excellent points about the NRA. The NRA must stop pushing issues that have NOTHING to do with fighting for our firearm rights. I don’t want to hear about gay marriage, immigration, or for that matter Country music (NRA Country....WTF is that?) from the NRA. I want to hear about going massively on the offensive to restore and protect the 2a.

[Firefly]

Yep. The point people are missing is that ALL our rights are under siege, not just guns.

You have the First Amendment, BUT...
You have the right to remain silent, BUT...
You can run for office, BUT...

BUT BUT BUT...

even yesterdays hard Left are today's Centrists.

I blame globalism. We focus on 2A because hey, we like guns. But even I have seen where we are less free than even 10 years ago.

"Never waste a crisis"

The NRA's job is to keep the NRA in business.

Honestly..and I will catch Hell (and will take it...the NRA is morally no better tha the NAACP, SPLC, etc. At one point, they had a cause but now they sell wooden nickels to keep people up in Northern VA mansions.

Had 32 years to get FA back...newp.
Had a lot of opportunities to reverse ATF rulings....newp

But hey...you get a chinese made pocket knife for renewing.

Pay yo dues though so you can keep your "right to hunt"

[JoshNC]

The NRA's job is to keep the NRA in business.

Honestly..and I will catch Hell (and will take it...the NRA is morally no better tha the NAACP, SPLC, etc. At one point, they had a cause but now they sell wooden nickels to keep people up in Northern VA mansions.

Had 32 years to get FA back...newp.
Had a lot of opportunities to reverse ATF rulings....newp

But hey...you get a chinese made pocket knife for renewing.

Pay yo dues though so you can keep your "right to hunt"

True however the NRA is still our best defense on a national level. It is relevant and it’s our duty to be active and push it in the right direction.

[OH58D]

We must go on the offensive against 922(d)(3) and 922(r). Heller gives us the teeth to do so. The second amendment has NOTHING to do with sporting. The 1968 gca and 922(o) are illegal, unconstitutional. We must stop being apologists, must stop compromising.

I think many would be stunned as to the massive numbers of 922(r) violations there are, unwittingly and intentional.

Regarding that Louisiana phenom, Jerry Miculek, we should be thankful that most hard-line Leftists are secular humanists. They can't comprehend human evil so they transfer their focus to some object or thing. Otherwise they'd be focusing on Jerry's Deadly Digit (Trigger Finger) as something that has to be banned or regulated....