How did such a piece of shit pass all of the trials?
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Member
How did such a piece of shit pass all of the trials?
Member
There weren't any initial trials. They just took bids and bought an "off the shelf" weapon. Then they tested it.Originally Posted by CPM
Senior Member
Every gun now that is just a Glock Cover band
Senior Member
The current issue with the Sig P320 is nothing ever dies on the internet. Someone comes in with a youtube video in early 2018 referencing a DOD report from 2017 that was a compilation of testing done during 2015/2016 time frame. 10 years from now people will still bring up these questions and complain that Glock did not get picked. Glock could not be picked because they did not full meet the requirements in the solicitation. You don't spend the time and money for the full battery of elimination testing when you only have one pistol left that meets the solicitation requirement.
As for some of the reported issues with double feeds and live rounds falling out. Giving soldiers that are proficient rifle shooters a bunch of handguns to test doesn't make them weapons experts. I saw everything from thumbs forward grip to cup and saucer in the one test I attended. Riding the slide release caused the slide to lock back with rounds still in the mag. An immediate action response of tap rack lot of times would create a worse double feed.
Is Sig the best gun out there? Time will only tell but it is currently one of the most tested guns. David
Last edited by dwhitehorne; 11-30-18 at 08:06.
Senior Member
This is factually incorrect.
The Glock entry met the requirements.
The process was:
-Initial testing (to weed out the absolute junk)
-Bids
-Full testing
Anything that didn't meet the MHS contract requirements would not have made it to the initial testing, let alone to the bidding process.
Both Glock and SiG passed the initial testing and submitted their bids.
Based only on the bids, the Army selected the SiG submission.
Neither firearm was subjected to the full battery of testing.
" Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
- Samuel Adams -
Senior Member
Is that a bad thing? Obviously we want a durable and reliable product but, as a taxpayer, I don't necessarily see a problem.
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“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Senior Member
I'll have to find the solicitation at work and read back over. I've been requested to do a COR survey on every Federal handgun solicitation since my Agency selected the P320 in 2015. I could be getting them mixed up. David
Last edited by dwhitehorne; 11-30-18 at 13:26.
Senior Member
So you probably have as much experience with the 320 as anyone being a user since 2015. Any crazy issues with the guns? Bad QC? One gun shoots great with a good trigger while the next one is crunchy and inaccurate? Etc, etc?
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."
Senior Member
I took delivery of 250 in 2015 and 200 in 2016. Then in Dec 2017 Sig replaced all 450 of those and sent us 200 more in Jan 2018. I'm the Firearms Intake Officer and have function tested all 650 at least once. I have field striped the guns in DC where I work and lubed everyone of them to my standard for the 43 transition classes we have run so far. I think the redesigned giuns are nicer than the originals. My first gun had over 4000 rounds through it. I took it to FIRTP last summer before I switched it out in December. I never had an issue with my first gun. My second gun I have now went with me through a Mid-South class at Quantico in the Spring. I was the only Sig in the class of Glocks and everyone wanted to try my gun.
I will say I prefer the newer trigger shape to the older version. Other than that the guns shoot about the same for me. Having hundreds of guns to compare I see that different people assemble them. Some guns have white grease on some contact points. Some guns have no white grease on them at all. As for the triggers they are all similar. I can tell a few have a crisper break than others but my uncalibrated trigger finger has them pretty similar. I can tell the difference between a gun that is bone dry to one that is lubed up.
As for accuracy, we went from the P2000 LEM in 40 to the P320 carry in 9mm so universally the officers seem to prefer the Sig. Our course of fire is so easy I really don't see a difference in scores but the groups are definitely tighter.
We haven't had any issues with the new guns. All 450 of the old guns were removed from service in June so everyone with a Sig has the new model. We haven't has any of the new guns break. We did have an officer incorrectly disassemble his pistol take down lever (which is not authorized) and booger up the O ring.
The number one issue we had was the magazines. Our indoor range in DC has a concrete floor. The first two versions of mags we tried had the base plates come apart when being dropped. Only with people over 6 feet tall though. The newest mags with the updated guns have now gone through two qual session and we haven't had one move yet.
In the end we were definitely a beta tester. I knew it when the Pistol Eval Committee picked the Sig. Since Sig replaced every gun I can't complain. I will say the logistics of getting 450 guns off the street from DC, NY, CA and GA in 6 months was kind of a pain. David
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How long were those 450 officers in the field with the defective, fires-if-dropped, guns?
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