If You Like Your DNA You Can Keep It--Just Not a Secret

**prdubi** · 02-02-19, 13:24

Works for me....

Kaiser Permanente...knocks off 75 off my insurance premium if I stay a weight...
I get a bonus for other stuff.

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**SteyrAUG** · 02-02-19, 15:02

Originally Posted by 26 Inf

My FIL is a big genealogy nut, he is a nice man, but that is all he knows, genealogy and B-52's (pretty much all he worked on at Boeing), that is it. Consequently convo's with him are limited.

I tried to listen and be polite for the first 5 to 10 years, finally I had to tell him pointblank not interested in how far back his family goes in Germany, not one iota. So now I just grin and bear listening to the same B-52 stories.

I think SOME of the genealogy buffs are somewhat self-absorbed, and given to humble bragging about their lineage, others are genuinely curious.

I, myself, don't care, although I still semi-take care of my Grandfather's family grave sites in two local cemeteries, that is out of respect for a man I knew and cared about.

Back to the DNA thing.........

As a history nerd, I have some interest in the whole genealogy thing, but I don't see it as something to brag about, you literally have no control over where you came from.

Doing the research can be interesting, to see what you discover, but that's about it.

As an example it turns out I'm related to Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett and Meriwether Lewis but so are probably 10,000 other people and it's so distant that all three men are now related to each other to some degree. It was something neat to know when I was in the 4th grade, now it's as personal as "we went to the moon." Technically "we did go to the moon" but it's not like I had any meaningful relationship to that event except for what it did for me as a person and my sense of wonder. Had I never existed, we still would have gone to the moon.

The only thing I take the slightest pride in is my Grandfather, who was just another guy on a B-24 who did his thing, survived the war and had a few interesting stories. But those were his accomplishments, not mine, so pride isn't really the correct word.

**Hmac** · 02-02-19, 16:31

Originally Posted by SteyrAUG

As an example it turns out I'm related to Daniel Boone, Davy Crockett and Meriwether Lewis but so are probably 10,000 other people ...

Yep...I'm related to Daniel Boone too, on my mother's side...directly from his sister Sarah Boone. But so are probably 10,000 other people. I'm more directly related to John Moses Browning, but I can't remember how. My mother's family name was Browning.

**ABNAK** · 02-02-19, 21:14

Originally Posted by Hmac

Well, that’s true, of course. Testifying against a patient and breaching confidentiality can be easily and legally compelled. But if the Feds want a little of your blood to run your DNA sequence, doctors aren’t involved. They could just tell the hospital or other certified lab that their Medicare participation is on the line and they want a couple of drops to sequence each patient’s DNA. It doesn’thave anything to do with doctors except that they’re the ones that order the battery of blood tests in the first place. About 85% of the blood they draw for any given battery of test is discarded. A couple of drops on a slide, or a simple swab and a batch mailer is all they’d need and no one would be the wiser. In these various threads, we’ve posited a vast variety of extra-legal breaches of the 4th amendment, some far more egregious than this one.

I don’t know that labs are doing that, but like most doctors, I would have no way of knowing. The hematology lab is a land of mystery to me. In our hospital, I know where it is but I’ve set foot in there maybe once in 30 years. I order the blood count, for example. The phlebotomist draws the blood and the only other thing I know about the whole process is when the results show up in the computer a few minutes later. Those results are all I care about...not what happens to the blood afterward they’re done running the tests. I do know that they hang on to the vials for some period of time in case additional tests are needed, but I don’t know for how long. That’s not in my lane.

I will say this: if I am on a jury for a murder case, and it was exposed that the DNA had been obtained by some of the above-mentioned chicanery, I would vote NOT GUILTY. I am a huge 4th Amendment supporter and if there is one exception made there will be another, then another, then another, and so on...…

Sir William Blackstone: "It is better for ten guilty men to be set free rather than one innocent man to be punished."

**26 Inf** · 02-02-19, 22:50

Originally Posted by ABNAK

I will say this: if I am on a jury for a murder case, and it was exposed that the DNA had been obtained by some of the above-mentioned chicanery, I would vote NOT GUILTY. I am a huge 4th Amendment supporter and if there is one exception made there will be another, then another, then another, and so on...…

Sir William Blackstone: "It is better for ten guilty men to be set free rather than one innocent man to be punished."

If the judge has allowed the evidence, as far as someone on the jury, doing their sworn duty, is concerned, it is legit evidence. If someone would let a murderer, proved by DNA evidence, go free because their panties were in a wad over how the admitted evidence was obtained, it speaks volumes to their reasoning ability.

The 4th Amendment is one of our most precious Amendments, so we shouldn't take it lightly. That being said, if your daughter was raped, and the DNA evidence was legally compared to DNA samples from a genealogy site, revealing that someone related to a person on that site had committed the rape, would you want the police to pursue the lead?

This how BTK was nabbed:

Two weeks later, a disk arrived in the mail at another TV station, along with a gold chain, a photocopied cover of a novel about a killer who bound and gagged his victims, and several 3-by-5 index cards, one of which gave instructions for communicating with BTK through the newspaper.

The disk contained one valid file bearing the message “this is a test” and directing police to read one of the accompanying index cards with instructions for further communications. In the “properties” section of the document, however, police found that the file had last been saved by someone named Dennis. They also found that the disk had been used at the Christ Lutheran Church and the Park City library.

A simple Internet search turned up a Web site for the church, which identified Dennis Rader as president of the congregation. Police quickly determined that Rader was a code compliance officer in Park City, located his address, drove past his house and saw a black Jeep Grand Cherokee registered to his son, Brian, in the driveway.

From there, prosecutors subpoenaed a tissue sample from a Pap smear done on Rader’s daughter, Kerri, at a student clinic near Kansas State University in Manhattan, which she had attended five years earlier. DNA tests on that sample showed that Kerri Rader was the daughter of BTK.

**Doc Safari** · 02-20-19, 09:16

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...se/2873930002/

Arizona could soon be one of the first states to maintain a massive statewide DNA database.

And if the proposed legislation passes, many people — from parent school volunteers and teachers to real estate agents and foster parents — will have no choice but to give up their DNA.

Under Senate Bill 1475, which Sen. David Livingston, R-Peoria, introduced, DNA must be collected from anyone who has to be fingerprinted by the state for a job, to volunteer in certain positions or for a myriad of other reasons.

The bill would even authorize the medical examiner's office in each county to take DNA from any bodies that come into their possession.

The Department of Public Safety would maintain the collected DNA alongside the person's name, Social Security number, date of birth and last known address.

Any DNA in the database could be accessed and used by law enforcement in a criminal investigation. It could also be shared with other government agencies across the country for licensing, death registration, to identify a missing person or to determine someone's real name.

It could also be provided to someone conducting "legitimate research."

A $250 fee could be collected from a person who submits biological samples, according to the bill. It's not clear who would foot the cost for the dead.

My take: Face it. The move toward totalitarianism in this country has gained a momentum that will require a Herculean effort to stop.

**FromMyColdDeadHand** · 02-20-19, 09:30

Originally Posted by 26 Inf

If the judge has allowed the evidence, as far as someone on the jury, doing their sworn duty, is concerned, it is legit evidence. If someone would let a murderer, proved by DNA evidence, go free because their panties were in a wad over how the admitted evidence was obtained, it speaks volumes to their reasoning ability.

The 4th Amendment is one of our most precious Amendments, so we shouldn't take it lightly. That being said, if your daughter was raped, and the DNA evidence was legally compared to DNA samples from a genealogy site, revealing that someone related to a person on that site had committed the rape, would you want the police to pursue the lead?

This how BTK was nabbed:

Two weeks later, a disk arrived in the mail at another TV station, along with a gold chain, a photocopied cover of a novel about a killer who bound and gagged his victims, and several 3-by-5 index cards, one of which gave instructions for communicating with BTK through the newspaper.

The disk contained one valid file bearing the message “this is a test” and directing police to read one of the accompanying index cards with instructions for further communications. In the “properties” section of the document, however, police found that the file had last been saved by someone named Dennis. They also found that the disk had been used at the Christ Lutheran Church and the Park City library.

A simple Internet search turned up a Web site for the church, which identified Dennis Rader as president of the congregation. Police quickly determined that Rader was a code compliance officer in Park City, located his address, drove past his house and saw a black Jeep Grand Cherokee registered to his son, Brian, in the driveway.

From there, prosecutors subpoenaed a tissue sample from a Pap smear done on Rader’s daughter, Kerri, at a student clinic near Kansas State University in Manhattan, which she had attended five years earlier. DNA tests on that sample showed that Kerri Rader was the daughter of BTK.

Legal don't make it right. I know what you are saying, but there are all kinds of cool evidence that we could use to help solve cases. The use of secondary evidence is a pretty slippery slope. Like tracking every phone, but yours and then looking at the resulting data that has to be yours. They didn't look for your phone, they just identified everyone elses.

**Hmac** · 02-20-19, 11:10

What we have all historically considered to be privacy was private largely because the technology didn't exist for more intrusion. A broad DNA database is just the very beginning of government intrusion into what we all had previously thought represented privacy. As technology advances...if they can do it, they will do it.

**Doc Safari** · 02-20-19, 11:28

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/wor...john-whitehead

President Donald Trump has signed the Rapid DNA Act into law which means the police can routinely take DNA samples from people who are arrested but not yet convicted of a crime.

The law, which was signed in 2017 and comes into effect this year, will require several states to connect Rapid DNA machines to Codis – the national DNA database controlled by the FBI.

These machines, which are portable and about the same size as a desktop printer, are expected to become as routine a process as taking fingerprints.

But John W. Whitehead from The Rutherford Institute believes it is a sinister development which will make everyone a suspect.

Speaking to Daily Star Online, he said: “The fact of the matter is that these machines are not full-proof.

“But we could look at a situation in which someone could be arrested, have their mouth swabbed and then be charged within hours after generating a DNA profile.

“We are looking at the erosion of the concept of innocent before proven guilty because it will allow police to go on fishing expeditions.

“When you sit on a park bench, you shed DNA. That is now up for grabs by police who could swab it, and run it through a DNA database. If they find a match, or if misconduct occurred anywhere in the vicinity where your DNA was found, you might find yourself charged with a crime you never committed merely because you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

“Even people who aren’t charged with major crimes could have their DNA put on file.

“People who are just seen as suspicious could have their genetic makeup stored in a criminal database.”

John added that until recently the government was required to adhere to certain restrictions on how, when and where it could access someone’s DNA.

But now it has been changed with the US Supreme Court ruling and heralds in a loss of privacy, he claims.

John also says hospitals are taking and storing newborn babies’ DNA often without the parent’s consent.

All 50 US states control their DNA databases but increasingly much of the data is linked to the FBI database.

He added: “Don’t forget the FBI had a file to take down Martin Luther King because he stood against the state on segregation.

“They also kept a file on John Lennon because he was against the war in Vietnam.

“The government are not saints and the FBI certainly isn’t.

“People need to stand up and take notice before it is too late because we are heading toward an Orwellian totalitarian state.”

My take: Living in a low tech Third World country looks better and better every day.