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Thread: Retired ATF agent says AR-15 rifles should be regulated like machine guns

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    My point is compromise which the Jews certainly thought would work did not lead to them being able "to fight another day". They would have been better off fleeing to somewhere safer. Then again there weren't that many nations at the time willing to take them in. So they were stuck taking whatever deal they could get which was in a nutshell: we're gonna assign you where you can live, take away your means of livelihood, then we're gonna take away all your shit even the gold fillings from your teeth, and then on top of that exterminate you. That's some seriously grim shit right there, and it's happened everywhere that socialism has taken hold. Germany, Russia, China, Cambodia, etc...

    Yes the Warsaw ghetto fought, but they're failure had much to do with their hope of Russian support that never happened more than anything. No doubt it was their last resort, but imagine if the Jews of Europe had a magic ball and could have seen what was coming down the pike in the 1920's and early 1930's. Do you think they and the rest of Europe would have done things differently? I would hope so!

    No thank you. I'll pass on a helping of that shit sandwich. We should all be vigilant to prevent anything like this from happening again. Make no mistake they fear us and our guns as they know with us law abiding gun owners and the Constitution they can't take the power away from the people by outright force. Once we are disarmed we will be their prey. It will not go down easy and soft. It will go down just like the Night of the Long Knives. BAM they'll be beating down doors to take away our shit and slitting our throats before anyone can organize and assemble. The organization will happen underground once everyone has been alarmed that shit has gone south hard and fast in the first wave.

    Don't get me wrong, I understand "living to fight another day". Unfortunately if I learned anything from the Obama administration is that we're not as far from the left taking over as we thought we were. And they have learned with the Trump administration that they weren't as close as they thought they were either. Imagine what our life would be like two years into a Clinton administration. IMHO we dodged one hell of a bullet there. I hope we dodge another in three days too!
    Okay so perhaps there wasn't really any disagreement in what each of us was referring to, except the speed at which things occur. Although extremely unlikely that it will ever happen that way, any mass confiscation wouldn't happen overnight. It's logistically impossible. Not to mention the fact that the politics surrounding it would signal far in advance of doing the actual dirty deed. Unless you were a hermit living in a cabin in Montana you'd know that storm clouds were gathering and if prudent would take appropriate measures to ensure you weren't (proof-wise) a lawbreaker. They might know you're full of shit but then again a million other guys (not an exaggeration) would be in the same boat with you. Then the sheer logistics of the situation rears it's ugly head again. Unless of course Due Process and most other Constitutional rights were thrown out the window, and then we're talking a whole new level of treachery.
    Last edited by ABNAK; 11-04-18 at 19:02.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABNAK View Post
    Okay so perhaps there wasn't really any disagreement in what each of us was referring to, except the speed at which things occur. Although extremely unlikely that it will ever happen that way, any mass confiscation wouldn't happen overnight. It's logistically impossible. Not to mention the fact that the politics surrounding it would signal far in advance of doing the actual dirty deed. Unless you were a hermit living in a cabin in Montana you'd know that storm clouds were gathering and if prudent would take appropriate measures to ensure you weren't (proof-wise) a lawbreaker. They might think you're full of shit but then again a million other guys (not an exaggeration) would be in the same boat with you. Logistics rears it's ugly head again. Unless of course Due Process and most other Constitutional rights were thrown out the window, and then we're talking a whole new level of treachery.
    Exactly.

    What's painfully obvious to me now is that the Democrats are totally capable, and willing to take it to that "whole new level of treachery". That's what quite frankly scares the hell out of me. They've put it out there unashamedly. Just look at what Antifa has gotten away with. Unfortunately I think we're closer than anyone of us realized.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fjallhrafn View Post
    If split crotch panties are what it takes to get your wife to exercise, wouldn't that be a good thing?

  3. #63
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    It's kind of nice that a guy who bled the system in a freedom sucking unconstitutional bureaucracy was kind enough to his former colleagues to recommend this.
    I mean with ideas like this, they will be able to retire also, well except for the ones who'll die on some shabby doorstep or hallway trying to enforce this BS.

  4. #64
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    The question I continue to have is: Why are we issuing weapons of war to a beurocratic government agency?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by scooter22 View Post
    Why did you feel that way? Why did you change your mind ?
    My entire idea was:

    Make silencers OTC (remove them from the NFA and either make it a simple 4473 or make them just another gun part), open the machine gun registry, and then move semi-automatic rifles to the NFA. Maybe even add in a little federal pre-emption to end the AWBs in NY and CA....

    As for why: Because I was pretty sure we were going to lose hard in late 2012/early 2013 (my enthusiasm for this compromise waned when it became obvious that nothing was going to change - when the voting for proposed gun legislation was slated for May). So with my proposed, "compromise," we would get something out of it and the gun-grabbers who - largely - were just after political masturbation would feel like they got something out of it. It could also have dissuaded mass shooters from acquiring semi-automatic rifles to commit their shootings with (as no mass shootings, to the best of my knowledge, have ever been committed with either registered machine guns or registered or unregistered SBRs). It would mean nothing would be banned and would simply make getting a new semi-automatic rifle a pain - albeit no greater a pain than getting a machine gun or an SBR (and I imagine that sales of semi-auto-only rifles would drop like a rock, with people being able to get an LE6933 as easily as an LE6920 - why buy the LE6920?).

    So of all the possible, likely outcomes (in which something happened), that struck me as the least painful possibility.

    Why did it change? Because f___ 'em. We aren't getting anything out of them. Silencers aren't coming off the NFA. The NFA machine gun registry isn't getting re-opened. It wasn't going to happen with the Democrats in charge, it ain't happening with the GOP in charge. I see no reason to give the opposition an inch if they aren't willing to give an inch in return (and they aren't and putting semi-automatic rifles on the NFA isn't an inch - but neither is removing silencers from the NFA nor reopening the machine gun registry). (I would be interested in seeing some science done on the whys and wherefores of mass violence and use that as a starting point for crafting national policy on everything that might be involved, including gun control - or the lack thereof - but since nobody has any interest in it - neither the NRA nor the Brady Bunch have any reason to actually find solutions when they're making so much screaming about how we're all going to die, &c.)

    Bottomline: It was a momentary weakness.
    " Nil desperandum - Never Despair. That is a motto for you and me. All are not dead; and where there is a spark of patriotic fire, we will rekindle it. "
    - Samuel Adams -

  6. #66
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    Please post which mods are guilty of what you claim. I certainly don't recall any.

    Quote Originally Posted by polymorpheous View Post
    Members and mods of this very board advocated for this idea during the post Sandy Hook panic.

    https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/41...e-machine-guns



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  7. #67
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    My reference to the Warsaw Ghetto, was this.

    If a handful of starving Jews with ZERO gun background were able to hold the German army at bay for over a month. Just think what a whole bunch of vets of military and LE, plus current members of the same. Plus the numbers of country boys that hunt, could do to any group that seeks to destroy the Constitution.

    If G-D forbid this day comes we will lose our guns only if we refuse to fight back. If all of us use the talents we have to fight tyranny, we will stay free. If we can see high taxes on ammo will be a way to dry up our ability to use our guns, then buy a box a month to put in your defend liberty bank. Also government tyranny in this case looks like a path to make money. If for 50 years plus we havent slowed the drugs coming into this country, what chance do they have with stopping ammo.

    My family for centuries were smugglers, I would shift gears and hire retired Tier 1 lads to smuggle in ammo.

    I will never accept tyranny!

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoringGuy45 View Post
    One of the Circuit Court rulings may have opened up a can of worms for the anti-gunners. This is from an NPR article in 2016, when the SC declined to hear an appeal to a 2nd Circuit ruling that upheld the NY and CT bans:
    https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...pons-ban-stand
    We have two new SC Judges now. Hopefully that will change in our favor....I sure hope so!

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    Last edited by RetroRevolver77; 12-18-18 at 17:12.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honu View Post
    maybe old enough and lived in other countries and studied history enough to never say never !!!!

    taxes on ammo and so on the idea of taking over time ? sure full time job they could hire more looser workers to do it that would be happy to do it and claim see we created jobs and you would have the expansion of the losers at airports coming into your homes !!!

    I do not trust the gov lefties to do this

    who thought Russia would fall as quick as it did ?
    who thought the wall would come down the way it did ?
    how fast did land lines go away and cell phones take over internet and the way we live now compared to say even 30 years ago are radical life shifts
    so even if things change over 30 years ?

    do I think they will ? yes that is the end game so it will be never ending until they do and unless the next gen radically shifts into conservative values ?
    I'm with you.

    The argument that confiscation won't happen because it's too messy is a fallacy. Does anyone believe the Bill and Hillary's, the Obama's, the Holder's, the Feinstein's, et al. of the world give an actual phuc about the lives of citizens, LEO's, and or military personnel? They would be warm and cozy in their ivory towers shielded by their Praetorian guards.

    Another talking point is that it will never happen because there are too many guns out there and not enough personnel that would actually obey such orders. While I agree, who says the disarmament proponents would not still try? Since when has the left ever used logic? That of course is not to even mention the use of a multi-national / foreign occupying force on US soil.

    People talk about confiscation as if were to transpire at present while everyone has food in their stomachs, potable water flowing, plugged into their smart phones, going about their lives like everything is normal on any given ordinary day. Yeah no, that ain't how it would go down at all.

    Normalcy bias is a thing.






    Quote Originally Posted by RazorBurn View Post
    My point is compromise which the Jews certainly thought would work did not lead to them being able "to fight another day". They would have been better off fleeing to somewhere safer. Then again there weren't that many nations at the time willing to take them in. So they were stuck taking whatever deal they could get which was in a nutshell: we're gonna assign you where you can live, take away your means of livelihood, then we're gonna take away all your shit even the gold fillings from your teeth, and then on top of that exterminate you. That's some seriously grim shit right there, and it's happened everywhere that socialism has taken hold. Germany, Russia, China, Cambodia, etc...

    Yes the Warsaw ghetto fought, but they're failure had much to do with their hope of Russian support that never happened more than anything. No doubt it was their last resort, but imagine if the Jews of Europe had a magic ball and could have seen what was coming down the pike in the 1920's and early 1930's.
    We have a magic ball now days, it's called the internet. Gleichschaltung or the "Nazification" of Germany is an interesting time in history we would be wise to learn from. See my sig line for an example of the modern accepted and politically correct propaganda of a targeted demographic no different from those targeted by the Nazis.
    Last edited by Moose-Knuckle; 11-06-18 at 05:13.
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