I agree that the aftermarket support is lacking. So far I only have two magazines (came with the gun). There is no source of magazines at this point. I was told by a Walther rep at SHOT that the second generation P99’s magazine should fit with a little modification to the feed lip. But still, P99 magazines are rare as well.
Holster issue - The PPQ will fit in a P99 and even an M&P holster.
Interesting to hear that you ordered an aftermarket barrel, even though you said the gun was accurate.
Here is my result with the PPQ as compared to the G19 and M&P:
I fired 3 shot group from each gun at 25 yards, standing, using the head portion of the IDPA target as the aiming zone. You can see the black magic markers writing for the gun type:
Again, the PPQ gave the smallest group. The G19’s group was the widest and the M&P was a little bigger than the PPQ. Did somebody say the M&P is inaccurate?
Some aren’t and some are…it’s random…I had a inaccurate M&P, and can tell you I would’nt even attempt a head shot like that with it at 25yds…It just would’nt hit the target… My PPQ, and P-2000? Sure, I know they’re capable, now, the nut behind the trigger? He’s questionable…
I’ve only shot a small number of rounds through my PPQ so far. The recoil is certainly different from that of Glocks and M&Ps, though it did not feel slower. Based on feel alone (not the least bit scientific), I would say the muzzle rises slightly more… but it returns to target so rapidly that the increased climb is a moot point.
Hopefully more real tests will provide the answer you’re looking for.
There seems to be some consensus on this point to one degree or another. And/or some minor loss from muzzle flip being offset by the accuracy component.
GB had one pop up today for a decent buy now price - so I get to figure it out for myself. Thanks for the many excellent responses, (and to theblackknight for stirring thing up).
The CSAT 5 and 1 drill is my “go to” drill for speed comparisons.
The drill is set up like this: From the high ready press out and fire 5 rounds into the a zone of an IPSC target followed by one round to the head. Par time is 3 seconds.
This drill allows me to really see how well I can control a handgun…
I can often shoot this drill clean in 1.89 seconds with a Glock 17 or 19. (Grip force adapter equipped)
When I first started with the M&P 9mm, I was slower until I gave it a bit more trigger finger and switched to the large back strap… Then I was hitting the 1.89 to 1.92 mark.
The PPQ has taken a bit of adjustment, however, I can routinely clean the drill with the PPQ in the same 1.89 to 1.95 mark. I had to make some adjustments to get there, but all 3 guns are capable of excellent speed if you put the time in and get them figured out.
Honestly, if you don’t have a shot timer… it is almost impossible to really understand your shooting at faster speeds. It is easy to say: “Oh, the recoil feels so different… It is slowing me down so much” However, the numbers don’t lie…
Shot timers are a huge training multiplier, and unless you are comparing your shots on a timer between weapons… you may be missing part of the picture.
While hickok’s reviews and videos are entertaining and informative, he also appeared to be a decent shooter, there is no quantitative data to represent the performance of any of those pistols. Shooting steel, bottles, water melons, etc. is very entertaining and offer immediate feedback but doesn’t have any use to accurately measure certain performance.
The two previous posters referred to the use of the timer. It is a very useful tool and aid to prove a case.
I agree. But to me, the vids do show how the the muzzle flip of both pistols can be controlled so it pretty much becomes a non factor, which was the intent.
What is available (that works well) in the holster market for the PPQ?
I’m primarily interested in a kydex (level 0) straight drop belt holster for general range use. Also, I have a HSGI batman belt (for casual 3-Gun) with an RTI setup, so something convertible to that gear could be handy.
I’m pretty sure the PPQ fits just about any P99 holster. I know for a fact that the Blackhawk Serpa holster for the P99 fits the PPQ perfectly, as I have one and use one with my PPQ M2.
Any additional insight on holsters? I think Safariland might be an option, but I get nothing but confused when I go to their site. Anyone using a Blade Tech for the PPQ?
There are actually a fair number of holsters available for the PPQ. I have a box of holsters specifically for the PPQ and my go-to is the Raven Concealment.
Note, IIRC, the trigger guard of the P99 is different, so P99 holsters may or may not work. I’ve seen a number of people using P30 holsters, but don’t have any first hand experience.
IMO, just buy the Raven. If you can’t wait, Kaluban Cloak will probably do the trick. My understanding is you can order a Milt Sparks VersaMax II for he PPQ, of course you won’t see it for a while. Some other options off the top of my head: Garrett Industries, Sunrise Leather and I think, UBG.
Check out Walther Forums for a much more comprehensive list. I think it is a stickie.
FWIW, for spare mags I use a Mitch Rosen 5DM double leather carrier made for the P99 which is the same mag as far as the mag carrier is concerned. I’ve tried a lot of different mag carriers, including the Raven and I think this is more comfortable and concealable.
Oh, and you can get a Blue Gun PPQ if you want to DIY and don’t want to use your actual PPQ.
With regard to CCW, I CCW a PPQ a fair amount of the time and I don’t find it particularly difficult to conceal.
I find a bit of cant beneficial when carrying around 3:00. In fact, the side of my torso kind of sits right in the depression at the top of the backstrap like it was meant to go there.
I typically carry in the Raven using the default OWB hardware. This conceals very well, although you need to be careful your cover garment is long enough.
The Raven can be configured for IWB but I tend to prefer leather for IWB. At this point I just grab one of my Garrett IWB holsters if cover garment length will be an issue or I need a bit more concealment.
Really, I should order a VM II for this job, but since it will take so long I never seem to get motivated enough to do it.
Oh, I’m about 5’4", around 170lbs and have been carrying for a couple of decades. My other primary CCW is a P2000SK.
The Raven is a consideration, but appears to be more for serious carry than general range use (IPSC/IDPA style). For carry with a full size pistol, I like Sparks’ IWB and have three SS-IIs. I’m not really at that point yet though - since the PPQ won’t arrive at my FFL dealer until (hopefully) tomorrow. I’ll need to shoot it for awhile first.
I have a couple of KyTac OWB holsters that have done fine for many years - I may send Dave an email and see if he can do a PPQ M2. (But the wait time could be long.)
It doesn’t sound like there is much in the way of “on the shelf” that fits my needs unless I go with something like the ITAC for quick and dirty.
