Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 43

Thread: 7.62 NATO, Semi-Auto, "sniper" rifle

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    76
    Feedback Score
    0

    7.62 NATO, Semi-Auto, "sniper" rifle

    Here's what I'm looking for:

    - A semi-auto rifle, chambered for 7.62 NATO, that won't choke on .308 Winchester ammo
    - Needs to accept 20 round magazines, & have 5 round magazines available
    - I want to be able to have excellent accuracy out to at least 600 meters
    - It has to be able to take down deer-sized animals at that same distance (assuming I am good enough to hit them, of course )
    - I need to be able to mount a scope that will allow me to be precise out to at least 600 meters
    - Ideally, it will accept a suppressor
    - It can't cost an arm and a leg...

    I'm fairly new to the ins and outs of 7.62 / .308 rifles, so don't assume I know anything about anything. Having said that, I grew up hunting with my Dad, some of which was deer hunting. I used a semi-auto 308 Winchester for the few years that I hunted deer, so while I'm not a complete noob, please feel free to pretend I am...

    Any and all suggestions will be much appreciated!
    Last edited by jgalt; 04-20-08 at 03:44. Reason: added another bullet point...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    114
    Feedback Score
    0
    I'm running a DPMS with a 16 inch barrel as my precision rig at work and the department has two as well. Mine started life as an AP4 and if i was to do it over would've done some things a little different. Anyway, the final combination has a JP VTAC forearm, harris bipod, Burris Scope, and a Bill Springfield Trigger. I swapped out the collapsible stock for an A2.

    I would have started with a DPMS with an A2 stock and an 18 inch barrel that I would have then had fluted to reduce weight, increase stiffness and surface area.

    I just got back from MO school with it and was keeping up with the bolt guns in grouping exercises and in tactical exercises with multiple targets or center mass shots, the semi auto was easier to use quickly. There were some guys that could really work a bolt and match speed but they had to work a lot harder.

    Unfortunately I had an issue with it and did not get to use it during the long range session on the last day in which we shot out to 700 yards.

    The best thing I did to the gun was sending the trigger to Bill Springfield for a 3 lb job. His trigger job compared favorably with the Remington trigger with a little more takeup being the only difference. The gun would group before, but the trigger job made it much easier and consistent and all for $45.

    Let me know if you have any questions.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,133
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jgalt View Post
    Here's what I'm looking for:

    - A semi-auto rifle, chambered for 7.62 NATO, that won't choke on .308 Winchester ammo
    - Needs to accept 20 round magazines, & have 5 round magazines available
    - I want to be able to have excellent accuracy out to at least 600 meters
    - It has to be able to take down deer-sized animals at that same distance (assuming I am good enough to hit them, of course )
    - I need to be able to mount a scope that will allow me to be precise out to at least 600 meters
    - Ideally, it will accept a suppressor
    - It can't cost an arm and a leg...

    I'm fairly new to the ins and outs of 7.62 / .308 rifles, so don't assume I know anything about anything. Having said that, I grew up hunting with my Dad, some of which was deer hunting. I used a semi-auto 308 Winchester for the few years that I hunted deer, so while I'm not a complete noob, please feel free to pretend I am...

    Any and all suggestions will be much appreciated!

    Define "arm and a leg" - AR10s/SR25/SASS guns are just expensive...unfortunately

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    76
    Feedback Score
    0
    I suppose I should have been a bit more descriptive about what "an arm and a leg" means to me...

    I'm considering getting a Springfield "Scout-Squad" or a "Loaded" and would have no problem spending the $1500-1700 it'll take to get one of them. Anything around $2000 is getting to be too much right now, and $2500 and up definitely qualifies as both an arm & a leg.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    1,133
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jgalt View Post
    I suppose I should have been a bit more descriptive about what "an arm and a leg" means to me...

    I'm considering getting a Springfield "Scout-Squad" or a "Loaded" and would have no problem spending the $1500-1700 it'll take to get one of them. Anything around $2000 is getting to be too much right now, and $2500 and up definitely qualifies as both an arm & a leg.

    With your criterion above, I'd skip the Scout/Loaded all together and get an AR10. If thats too expensive, just save money for a longer period of time.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    76
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek_Connor View Post
    With your criterion above, I'd skip the Scout/Loaded all together and get an AR10. If thats too expensive, just save money for a longer period of time.
    I am starting to think that I may end up with both, with the AR10 filling the bill for the above criteria, and the Springfield doing hunting duty. Do you know if the same magazines would work on both? I remember reading somewhere that some AR10 & M1A / M14 mags are interchangeable, but I've also read that they aren't. I need a definitive answer - anyone know?

    Thanks.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    6,542
    Feedback Score
    8 (100%)
    No, mags are not interchangeable between an AR-10 or a M14.

    Your above criteria is going to be extremely hard to fill, especially in that price range.
    Employee of colonialshooting.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    76
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Templar View Post
    No, mags are not interchangeable between an AR-10 or a M14.

    Your above criteria is going to be extremely hard to fill, especially in that price range.

    Thanks on the mag info (twice!). I thought my criteria would probably be hard to meet, given what is basically a sub-$2,000 budget, but I really didn't know, so I figured I'd ask.

    Thanks again.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    559
    Feedback Score
    0
    I may be a lone wolf on this, but I'd skip the AR10 and go for an M1A Scout. The Loaded will be more accurate at extended ranges, but with what you describe, the Scout will suit your needs. You won;t win, or even compete at Camp Perry with a Scout, but the handiness of the 18" rifle is a bonus. Get good with the irons and you can build up from there. If you want to keep it clean, a Sadlak scope mount will suit you nicely, but if you want to add utility to a great platform, dropping the rifle into a Troy MCS will bring it to a whole new level....USGI mags are cheap and easy to find as they are still in production. i say go M1A and never look back....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Southwest PA
    Posts
    6,311
    Feedback Score
    25 (100%)
    What do you consider excellent accuracy out to 600 yards? For semi-auto I don't think you can expect much better than 2MOA and have the type of weight/reliability you'd want. 2MOA is plenty accurate though a "sniper" would probably want something more.

    If you accept that as baseline I recommend a DSA SA 58 FN-FAL clone.

    I have one set up kind of how you described. It as a DSA Scope mount/rail system. G1 chrome lined barrel, trijicon ACOG 3x scope. It can shoot under 2MOA. INCLUDING SCOPE, rails, refinishing by Gunplumber and mount it comes in at about $2.2K. A comparable AR/M14 is WAY more. I've taken it hunting and would be perfectly capable of taking deer or elk.

    First it's a top quality military quality rifle, produced on original Steyr machinery/designs. Fully loaded standard FAL comes in at just over 10 lbs. The receiver is milled from a 19lb block of billet steel and is incredibly durable. The commercial Springfield M1A receiver is not adequate for your needs. They look nice, and are adequate for average use, but they're not mil-spec (whatever that means in this day and age) as such.

    (side note - If you want the M-14 variant consider ARMSCORP or Fulton Armory receiver/rifles. Sometimes you can pick a receiver that has double-lugs which makes for a more stable "sniper" platform These are comparable in price to ARs, but you do get what you pay for.)

    Second, replacement parts and spare mags for the FAL are readily available and CHEAP. They do have 5 round hunting magazines as well as 20 round originals. AR .308 mags are lots more expensive. FAL mags can be had for about $8 each.

    Third, it's brutally reliable once tuned. It has an adjustable gas system that is ideal for a suppressor. The AR can be finicky with a suppressor.

    Fourth it's one of the easiest long-arms to maintain. It lends itself perfectly to the amateur gunsmith (WECSOGer). I've built two. You can fix them easily yourself. The FAL is much easier to clean/maintain in the field than either the M1A or the AR.

    Both the M-14 and AR will have better inherent accuracy, but the FAL has other virtues and is perfectly adequate in terms of accuracy.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    76
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by MassMark View Post
    USGI mags are cheap and easy to find as they are still in production. i say go M1A and never look back....
    Where can I find these USGI mags that are cheap? I can't say that I've scoured the internet, but I have looked a bit and don't find any under around $40 a pop, usually closer to $50. I'm in no way doubting they are out there, I just want to know where...

    Thanks!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    mass
    Posts
    150
    Feedback Score
    0

    usgi m14 m1a

    midway: http://www.midwayusa.com/ebrowse.exe...341***12517***

    and 44mag.com has them cheap too plus if you live in a ban state they'll dissasemble them for you for a $1.50 a mag

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    6,542
    Feedback Score
    8 (100%)
    Quote Originally Posted by jgalt View Post
    Where can I find these USGI mags that are cheap? I can't say that I've scoured the internet, but I have looked a bit and don't find any under around $40 a pop, usually closer to $50. I'm in no way doubting they are out there, I just want to know where...

    Thanks!

    Try www.44mag.com

    They sell Checkmate mags for something like $25.00.

    Checkmate are the current military contractors for the M14 magazines, and they're great, not to be confused with the M9 mags.
    Employee of colonialshooting.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    2,332
    Feedback Score
    26 (100%)
    The only one right now that isn't going to be impossibly expensive or hard to mount optics on is the PTR-91. I think CDNN still has them for $900.

    But fair warning, they're filthy rifles, and a paddle release (highly worth it) is going to run around $200.

    I think they're the only "cheap" semi-auto option in town that you can mount optics on.

    As usual a boltgun is going to be twice as accurate for half the money.
    "Life is short, but the years are long." - Robert A. Heinlein

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Gulf Coast, MS
    Posts
    473
    Feedback Score
    25 (100%)
    I'd have to say either an AR platform or bolt gun. Probably the best 2 options when considering price v. accuracy. I personally would lean towards the AR platform, as I prefer semi's. Though I have seen PTR's like Aurang suggested post some nice accuracy out to 300 yards.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    5,082
    Feedback Score
    11 (100%)
    To clarify Templar's post, some AR-10 converted mags will work with the M1A or M14. Though it's not universal, and the current, and SUPERIOR, Gen II Armalite AR-10 mags will not work at all in the M14/M1A.

    I have mags that were converted from M14 mags long ago, and they will still operate in the M14, but I don't think they hold the bolt open when they are empty -- due to the follower being changed.

    A standard M14 mag will not stay in the magwell of an AR-10, since there is no mag release notch cut on a standard USGI M14 mag.

    Hope that helps...

    BTW, I would recommend an Armalite AR-10 to fit your needs. The DPMS meets most of your criteria except for 20rd mags.
    Last edited by SHIVAN; 04-21-08 at 08:37.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,104
    Feedback Score
    0
    I'd like a gun as described in OP as well, but will be waiting to see what FN and Magpul deliver.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Somehwere in 13T EG
    Posts
    42
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by jgalt View Post
    Here's what I'm looking for:

    - A semi-auto rifle, chambered for 7.62 NATO, that won't choke on .308 Winchester ammo
    - Needs to accept 20 round magazines, & have 5 round magazines available
    - I want to be able to have excellent accuracy out to at least 600 meters
    - It has to be able to take down deer-sized animals at that same distance (assuming I am good enough to hit them, of course )
    - I need to be able to mount a scope that will allow me to be precise out to at least 600 meters
    - Ideally, it will accept a suppressor
    - It can't cost an arm and a leg...

    I'm fairly new to the ins and outs of 7.62 / .308 rifles, so don't assume I know anything about anything. Having said that, I grew up hunting with my Dad, some of which was deer hunting. I used a semi-auto 308 Winchester for the few years that I hunted deer, so while I'm not a complete noob, please feel free to pretend I am...

    Any and all suggestions will be much appreciated!
    Well, here's mine. It will fill most of your requirements except it won't mount a suppressor in it's current configuration (never had a need for one and don't care to jump through the ATF hoops either) and it's probably a bit more than what you want to spend on it. I really don't have an accurate idea how much it cost me since I built it up over the years with parts I could find that fit my needs and some things like the McMillian stock are from the USMC DMR contract over-run bedded in Devcon that doesn't break down requiring re-bedding and the Brookfield mount isn't made anymore and going to be a LOT more expensive these days if you can even find one. However, it's 100% reliable with anything it is fed and DEADLY accurate! When I lived in North Daktoa, I used it to pick off deer in my sunflower fields out to 665 yards (verified with a Leica 1200 range finder) to date without any problems or a need for a second shot.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    268
    Feedback Score
    0
    These are mine - and they will accept a sound suppressor




    DETAILS

  20. #20
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    35
    Feedback Score
    0
    http://www.rrarms.com/catalog.php?prod=GMA9827 Heres a link to a springfield armory M1A with there extended cluster rail (even though its pictured on a SOCOM), if you dont like the bottom rail it can be easily removed or you could use it with a bipod. It is a solid platform for optics and the loaded M1As will shoot well out to 600 yards with decent glass. Also if you want to put a can on it AAC and YHM both make flash hiders for the full sized M1A that will accept their fast atatch cans (make sure that if you really need to suppress your rifle you get the full size rifle since it has a USGI M14 thread pitch, the scout and SOCOM have different thread pitches from and the flash hiders wont fit them).


    Quote Originally Posted by jgalt View Post
    Here's what I'm looking for:

    - A semi-auto rifle, chambered for 7.62 NATO, that won't choke on .308 Winchester ammo
    - Needs to accept 20 round magazines, & have 5 round magazines available
    - I want to be able to have excellent accuracy out to at least 600 meters
    - It has to be able to take down deer-sized animals at that same distance (assuming I am good enough to hit them, of course )
    - I need to be able to mount a scope that will allow me to be precise out to at least 600 meters
    - Ideally, it will accept a suppressor
    - It can't cost an arm and a leg...

    I'm fairly new to the ins and outs of 7.62 / .308 rifles, so don't assume I know anything about anything. Having said that, I grew up hunting with my Dad, some of which was deer hunting. I used a semi-auto 308 Winchester for the few years that I hunted deer, so while I'm not a complete noob, please feel free to pretend I am...

    Any and all suggestions will be much appreciated!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •