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Thread: Newbie SBR/Ammunition Question

  1. #21
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    Novelty asside, I wouldn't want to be shot with a Diplomat within 75 yards
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicKrack View Post
    Novelty asside, I wouldn't want to be shot with a Diplomat within 75 yards
    Look, I'm no expert by ANY means, but all I know is that when I was engaged in combat in Iraq during the initial 2003 invasion, I witnessed with my own eyes MANY Fedayeen Saddam fighter taking MULTIPLE hits before they'd finally go down for the count. I was a Marine, so we used the 20" barrel M16A2 (with just irons at the time, as the ACOG was being tested by 3 Marines in each of our infantry platoons) and fired the standard-issue green tip rounds. That's about as high as a muzzle velocity you can get with an assault rifle (generally speaking of course).

    Now, it IS true that the little bastards we were killing we all sorts of ****ed up on khat and had also shot themselves up with epinephrine (artificial adrenaline) as well before attacking us, but when you shoot someone in the chest several times, you expect them to die! So when they keep on tickin' and shooting at you, it's rather surprising to say the least. We just didn't anticipate having to shoot someone 6-10 times (give or take) before they'd finally stop fighting and were no longer a threat.

    On one occasion my good friend, who was one of the lucky few testing and evaluating the M16A4 and ACOG 4X optic, shot an enemy fighter in the face and was stunned to see the man not go down. He let loose quite a few rounds in frustration at the fighter's chest to make damn sure he would put his ass down, which of course did the trick.

    The reason I think this is relevant is because if someone breaks into your house at night, obviously knowing that your home, it's very likely that he (or she) is on some kind of drug(s). Meth seems to be all the rage these days, and those addicted to it seem to go to great lengths in order to get their next fix. So if they break into your house and are high out of their minds on Meth (or something similar), they will likely require more rounds to kill or effectively stop for good. If they are running at you, you might not be able to fire but just a few rounds before they reach you, so you want every round to count and you want them to stop coming at you as fast and soon as possible.

    Most likely the 7.5" Diplomat would do the job, but there IS always the possibility that, even at only 10 yards away, the drastically decreased muzzle velocity of the Diplomat might not be enough to stop/kill a methed-up full grown man before he reaches you and, because of his "superhuman" meth-strength, might even over power you and take your gun before he bleeds out.

    All I'm saying is just be aware that a drastically decreased muzzle velocity CAN have a rather large impact in a gun fight, even if it's a one-sided gun fight in your favor. I personally feel that for a HD firearm, a good ol' shotgun is always your best bet, as it will stop anybody dead in their tracks, and will also be less likely to over-penetrate walls and other house materials and mistakenly kill others in your home, or your next door neighbors if you just so happen to miss your target.... unless you are using slugs I guess.

    That's just my two cents, take it for what it's worth guys. With all that said however, I would personally LOVE to have the Noveske Diplomat because I just think it would be fun as hell to shoot at the range and in classes. But if I were to buy a rifle with a barrel that short for home defense or even for offensive purposes (if my job required it), I would probably go with one in 6.8mm.
    Last edited by RetreatHell; 05-19-09 at 19:26. Reason: needed to add some info

  3. #23
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    Excellent review and response with strong lived experiences to back you up.
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicKrack View Post
    If you don't mind, what is the waiting period on a Diplomat these days?
    I ordered/paid for mine on April 4, 2009 and still don't have a delivery date. Macy at Scottsdale Gun Club (http://www.scottsdalegunclub.com/) told me to plan on about 3 months. Then I start the SBR paperwork once I get a serial number.

    I'll post a date when it comes in.

  5. #25
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    Being that is a fully constructed weapon, you will have to file Form 4 right?
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  6. #26
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    This is my first AR; My first SBR; And my first Class 3. So I'm new to all of this. I haven't filled out any paperwork yet. Just burned the charge card and now waiting. Not sure what paperwork is normally required. Ignorance on my part.

    Yes, it is a complete weapon.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKettler View Post
    Yes, it is a complete weapon.
    Then it will be transferred on a Form 4.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKettler View Post
    This is my first AR; My first SBR; And my first Class 3. So I'm new to all of this. I haven't filled out any paperwork yet. Just burned the charge card and now waiting. Not sure what paperwork is normally required. Ignorance on my part.

    Yes, it is a complete weapon.
    Well you're definitely doing it right your first time by buying a Noveske. I wish my first AR would've been of that level of quality, but I didn't know of all the great brands at that time, other than Colt, which I didn't want to shell out the money for at the time (regrettably).

    I quickly learned my lesson, and now only buy quality ARs and quality accessories that have great reputations for reliability and performance.

  9. #29
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    Drich,

    In your opinion which is approved faster? Building an SBR on Form 1 or geting a complete rifle on a Form 4?
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonicKrack View Post
    Drich,

    In your opinion which is approved faster? Building an SBR on Form 1 or geting a complete rifle on a Form 4?
    It doesn't matter, in my experience. I've done quite a few Forms 1 and 4 over the past couple of decades and had them take anywhere from 4 weeks to 8 months. My last Form 1 was submitted in February of this year and I received my stamp in 44 days. My last Form 4 was submitted last September and I received the stamp in 48 days.

    As far as I'm concerned, these are the "good ole days" with regards to NFA turnarounds. Today it seems like people are bitching about waiting a few weeks to get their stamps when it was common to wait several months just a few years ago.
    Last edited by DRich; 05-19-09 at 23:52.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by CKettler View Post
    I have my first AR (Noveske 7.5" Diplomat) on order and since I am new to this type of weapon, I'd like some help in choosing ammunition that will work best in this 1 in 7" twist, 7.5" 5.56mm stainless barrel. In this short of an SBR, do any of you have any real-life experience (good or bad) that you'd be willing to share?
    I appreciate everyone's input and I truly value it. As a secondary source, I sent my question to Noveske and got this answer back which I think should be valuable to us all.

    "...first don't use any steel cased ammo, we have seen scratched chambers from doing so. We like the 77gr black hills ammo and the Hornady 75gr TAP, both shoot under 1MOA out of the 7 1/2". Now, I shoot a 10.5" and I like to go with lighter gr. bullets to get the velocities back up, I think the same would be true for the 7.5". The longer bullets are designed for high ballistic coefficient long range shooting, I don't think you bought your 7.5" for long range snipping. So I really think it makes since to shoot 55gr or lighter projectiles to get your 200yds and under energies back up. I am a reloader and I have shot all the way down to 40gr. ballistic tips with great success out of the 1 in 7 twist. High quality ammo will usually shoot cleaner and be more consistent for grouping. I hope this info helps."

  12. #32
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    Ordered the 10.5 Shorty Low Profile complete upper yesterday. The wait begins... I am going with Form 1 as I will SBR my existing Noveske Lower. Any engravers in the Montana area???
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  13. #33
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    I second the sentiments about the good old 12ga. for home defense. I love my AR's, but with my rem. 870 tactical with reduced recoil 00 buck, I can guarantee it will only take 1 round for a home invasion perp to go out in a body bag with NO shooting back.

  14. #34
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    12 gauge sounds good. This way you don't have to face him again in Civil court... Usually after the recovery, the intruder sues for everything you owe and the funny thing is that they win some of the cases. Sad but true.
    Last edited by SonicKrack; 05-24-09 at 15:02.
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  15. #35
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    Picked up a full LWRC M6A2 10.5" SRT SBR gas piston driven upper on Gunbroker. Anyone got one of these? Can't seem to find any rating or feedback on them.
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  16. #36
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    Noveske 10.5" Full SBR - Available

    I was at the Scottsdale Gun Club this afternoon and saw that they had just put a brand new Noveske 10.5" complete rifle up on the wall. It won't last long. I believe it was posted at $2,199. I bought my 7.5" Diplomat from Macy, and I know others on this forum have had good luck with Kyle too.


    Scottsdale Gun Club
    14860 N. Northsight Blvd.
    Scottsdale, Arizona 85260

    Store and Range Hours
    Monday - Friday: 10am-8pm
    Saturday: 9am* - 7pm
    Sunday: 9am* - 7pm


    Sales & Range Info
    ph: 480-348-1111
    fax: 480-348-1113
    info@scottsdalegunclub.com

    Transfers & Internet Orders (FFL's) Fax to:
    Fax: 480-222-4011

  17. #37
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    A Noveske SBR full rifle is as rare as a white crow these days. Too bad I ordered my Noveske upper allready, not to mention the LWRC gas piston upper I also purchased on Gunbroker. That Noveske Shorty will not last past this weekend!
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  18. #38
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    CKettler,

    When you purchased your Diplomat, they had it in the store or preordered it for you?
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

  19. #39
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    I purchased it and then they ordered it. I am still waiting for it to be delivered.

  20. #40
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    Thanks for the reply. Double the wait sucks. I got the Shorty Upper directly from Noveske and will have to wait for it to be made, just like you...
    Noveske Light Recce/AAC M4-2000 mod 08
    Noveske 7.5" VLTOR VIS Diplomat
    LWRC 10.5" gas piston upper with Blackout FH
    Walther P22/Tac Quest
    H&K Tactical Compact .45/AAC Evolution 45
    H&K P2000 .40 Duty
    KEL-TEC SU22 Semi Auto .22 rifle/threaded


    Next project: Some sort of machine gun...

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